this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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nanogarden

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Canvas for Lemmy is available! Let's create an XNO flag! (nano.garden)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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Canvas is available for Lemmy!

This is similar to reddit's /r/place. Each user gets to place a pixel on a canvas. The pixels are refreshed every 30 seconds.

The website with the canvas is: https://canvas.toast.ooo/

To log-in, you simply provide your instance's name and your username, and you get a code to log-in.

I have made a template for making an XNO flag. You can reach it by clicking here.

In the settings there is a button that allows you to toggle the tample on/off. You can use that button to make sure that you are placing the pixel in an unoccupied spot.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

https://canvas.toast.ooo/profile?action=factions

there's a faction function, not sure what it does

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you shift + click on a pixel, you can see who placed that pixel, and you can also see their faction. I think the faction is a way for users to label themselves as part of a team, but it doesn't have any special additional mechanic associated with it.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

very cool! how long does this last? it's charging up an idea i've had for a while though, basically a permanent nano canvas where each pixel could be claimed by an address and balance. and then if you take someone's pixel, there could be a bidding war or something like that. you get your nano back + some extra and then they claim your pixel for themselves. so i guess it would be some type of free market canvas? lots of possibilities there.

basically evolve the OG version https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Million_Dollar_Homepage

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Oooooh I get what you mean, that's a very good idea!

how long does this last

I think the canvas lasts until Sunday night

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

One scary thing about the nano-based canvas is that maybe at some point the person hosting that doesn't want to host it anymore. But every person who owns a pixel paid for it.... They didn't pay the person hosting the site, so it is not fair to ask that the site hoster pays them back. What happens then?

What I'm thinking is that it might be possible to do this but using NFTs. So, let's say that you have a 100 x 100 canvas, and 10,000 NFTs, each one corresponding to a pixel. So the NFTs map to the list of pixels Canvas(0,0), Canvas(1,0), Canvas(2,0).... and the owner of the NFT gets to pick the color. Since these NFTs live on the blockchain, there is no single person 'hosting' the canvas. Anyone can set up an instance and display the canvas by pulling the information from the NFTs.

I haven't studied deeply the NFTs, so I don't know how easy it is to associate a label with the color to them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, still hashing out the details, my go-to question is: but what if i died? That implementation could make sense and along the train of thought I have been on previously. Other things I've contemplated is having these 100x100s as time-bound, so you would periodically refresh them and they would eventually get concretized as a singular entity. Thoughts I've had today, could you track & sell the rights to this, is that even a good idea,+ and what's the resolution of custom clothing printing? Ultimately I'm coming from the direction of how does a creation inspire communities to create more and sustain it/themselves. I don't really care that much personally about making a large profit, not that there's anything bad with that, I just get more personal fulfillment from the former goal.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I guess we're juggling multiple concepts atm... could you even skirt the whole payment thing with just rep changes instead? I can't calculate exactly how that would play out rn, but imagine using 1 seed, generating a bunch of accounts under that, publicize those & associating them to the pixels, and you could monitor the largest rep for each of those accounts? Seems to work for website duplication/experimentation if the code is open-source, you could change the accounts at will. This kind of bleeds into another concept that I think nano is really suited for, which is I would call an interactive network monitor? What I find interesting about this concept is it actually doesn't require any extra input at all, people could use nano as is for regular economic activity, and you could have these metalayers that are actually just adding/extracting more value 2 those, essentially it's seeding another layer with the previous layer's entropy? I think we're just scratching the surface here...

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

you could monitor the largest rep for each of those accounts

I got lost in this part of the argument. What do you mean? The "rep" as in an account's representative? The account representative is decided by the account owner, and there is only one rep per account. I think I'm misunderstanding what you mean.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

delegator, sorry

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Aaaah thank you for the clarification. Now I follow the logic!

The RGB representation color of the pixel can be passed as the last nine digits of the amount delegated. The 8-bit RGB value is expressed as (R,G,B) where R, G, and B are numbers between 0 and 255. So if I want to set a pure yellow pixel (255,0,255) I can delegate "1.000000000000000000000255000255" to the account that controls that pixel.

There might be a more user-friendly format to achieve this, but this is the most straight-forward implementation I can think of. A choice can be made to have a more specific format to reject un-formatted amounts and this way prevent accidental black pixels being placed.

As to the "interactive network monitor", can you expand on that? It is not obvious to me what you mean with that. Would this canvas be an example of such type of monitoring?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

with so many digits i think using the smallest 9 raw values is a fine idea, especially for robust first implementations. right... there's a lot of black space if you don't restrict the digits, but i actually am not sure if i'm for or against that. black takes less power usually, right? lol

it could be. especially using your suggested implementation, there's accounts that exist already with delegated raw that will fall within the format, so if you designated that rep as the "place rep" you'd already have begun a place seeded with some beginning pixels.

hm...is there enough space for position coordinates as well?

if it's something like nyano.place 1 nyano = Ӿ0.000001

1.000001000000000000000255000255

looks like there's tons of leeway still there.

also i wonder how much this format biases colors, i'm guessing it won't be too significant esp. at this point

re: interactive network monitor https://music.nanos.cc/ https://github.com/Joohansson/nanomusic this is the best thing that comes to mind that already exists

my imagination is a little more complex and unfinished, but essentially it's just reinterpreting the meaning of the functions and data that already exist in nano and transforming them into another form. example: reconstruct/interpret the blockchain data as a virtual city. i think doing this actually helps you concretize understanding about network flows, and at some point surely begins to affect them as well.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

hm…is there enough space for position coordinates as well?

Oh, right! Yes, there is a lot of space for that. It would be possible to handle this with a single node.

So, there could be a "Canvas" Representative node

The amount delegated to it should follow a specific format, including a canvas-specific code, the 3-digit X coordinate, 3-digit Y coordinate, and the RGB code. There is easily more than enough space with the 30 digits we have to work with.

The color of each pixel is set by the highest amount delegated that claims a pixel.

The special code would make it so that there is no biasing, and that accidental pixel placements are very unlikely.

re: interactive network monitor https://music.nanos.cc/ https://github.com/Joohansson/nanomusic this is the best thing that comes to mind that already exists

Oh wow, I had never heard of that!! It is very cool. Do you mind if I will create a post to share that to [email protected], unless you would like to make that post yourself ^_^

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

i make no claim to the information i share 😜👍

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Hehehe, ok! I have shared it

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thank you guys for helping us!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No problem! I wasn't sure about how to help fix the bitcoin because the template is a bit more complex, but if I see that it's attacked again I'll help! ^_^

Also, I think small attacks are at the edge of what the rules allow, but if users starts attacking in masse or using multiple accounts to attack quickly - to the point that it is not even fun to try to defend because it is impossible - then you can report the attackers to the canvas admins and they'll be removed from the game.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I’m not sure whether whose lemmy instance is not configured properly, but your older comments don’t show up on our end. Our admin is offline, I’ll see if I can get in touch with him

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think that the federation is working. What tends to happen is that comments that were posted before anyone from an instance has suscribed will not be copied to that other instance. Even if a specific post is pulled, the comments are not.

Since I set up this instance only recently, probably no one from monero.town was or is subscribed to [email protected], so the comments were never fetched.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Okey, then me subscribing to you might have fixed the issue already

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Thanks! Yes, I think so. In the future posts will be automatically copied to monero.town, and the new comments will also arrive.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

not sure what the bitcoiners are up to, but there's two main ones: mubelotix & Aelorius from @jai.lu, they keep whittling away at the nyano. i didn't help them last night when randoms were attacking them because they've been pretty consistent at using spare pixels to attack poor nyano. most of my time has been spent grinding this rainbow and transitioned to zelda / majora's mask here

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Haha, ok! I'll stop defending the Nyano cat then

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Nooo i think the triforce guy might want to use it as as shield?

...hear me out...shooting a lil rainbow through monero at bitcoin 😹

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

idk i'd be okay if they wanted to move it to the left a little bit, but it feels like they want to destroy it completely :'(

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I won't to contribute to putting things through other people's drawings, I don't like that, even if they are being mean. But if you give me the template of the cat I can help defend it

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

it's a bit ad hoc, i've mainly just been defending the general form; so far that + sign has never been attacked. last nite i took a screenshot of the main nyano image and tried to shrink it. currently my settings are horizontal position 289 vertical 126 width 19 with this image.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is there a reason why you want the cat there? I can help you re-build it somewhere else! Or are you having fun fighting? If so I just hope it is fun for everyone involved 😅

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

kind of just the flow of things, was browsing around and looking for something to do, while I started angling the rainbow, they were building Monero, Bitcoin, Litecoin, but that drunnels guy made a pink circle to the left of them, and then was gone and no one was doing anything with it, and it just seemed like the perfect spot for our cat.

i'm still transforming this heart into the mask, it's rough 💗 trying to squeeze everything in there and make it look ok

i still can't read the bitcoiners mind though, i can't tell if they're just trying to re-arrange it a little or if there was just enough resistance to deter them from advancing too heavily. but last night there was a point where there was like a three way fight for that pink circle area and i just made sure to keep restoring nyano's bright eyes. the fact that the + sign was never encroached on gives me hope that nyano deserves to be there.

and yeah, cats don't mind a lil' trouble!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

& looks like triforce guy fused the master sword into nyano? 😹 😱

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Woah I did not see that coming

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I am cleaning around the cat to make it look cleaner. I hope that's fine! I'm assuming that the erratic colors around it didn't have a meaning and weren't supposed to be there

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Alright! There's another conversation I had on this thread, and they are willing to be allies instead of enemies.

From what they wrote in this thread they believe that you are the one that initiated the attack, and pointed out that you have been placing pixels on other's peoples projects. Maybe you have done that by mistake (it's not so hard to mis-place pixels on the canvas!), or some form of misunderstanding... or maybe you do enjoy causing trouble 😅 If you do enjoy causing trouble, then it is understandable that they would want to fight back.

For now they have agreed to leave the cat alone as long as the border and the skull are respected and none of us of us attacks their art. I won't be here for much longer so I can't help later. I hope you are happy with the alliance and that you also agree that peace is the best way forward! Good luck with your canvas art projects! I'm excited to see the finished art in the morning :D

Nano heart

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Could you elaborate on how nyano is backed by nano? And why does it smell like shitcoin?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Could you elaborate on how nyano is backed by nano? And why does it smell like shitcoin?

I understand that it is a character from a Nano wallet that calls the nano Nyano and multiplies the balance times some number. So it's just a cat for a specific Nano wallet's front-end, called "Nyano", and not a different crypto. But I am not personally so familiar with Nyano, I think @[email protected] can correct me if there is something else to it.

Still, I would not have chosen to place a crypto-related icon next to the drawings of another crypto project myself, precisely to avoid a situation of conflict. I am helping defend the drawing it in good spirit to help out the only other active user in this instance, but I consider it to be playful. If you are actually bothered by it I can stop defending it or even help take it off. The canvas is supposed to be free for whoever lands at a spot to do what they want, but I do understand that proximity in some cases can also be considered a form of provocation to some

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Let's call it a day then. Better have allies than ennemies. But we still do not want to get associated with it, so let's also keep the separation line

Edit: we attacked in the first place because f00dplz attacked the Bitcoin logo when he joined, before the cat was even started

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks! I also prefer allies. I'm not competitive and I love Monero. As I understand it someone wants to build Link's shield and then use the cat as the face of the shield, but I'm not sure how they are coordinating that. Maybe the cat will get covered in the end, by the shield, not sure.

I will keep an eye and if someone attacks your logos I will help. I think towards the end of the game (12 h from now) is when people might try to do sneaky things like quickly changing the bitcoin symbol again into a dollar sign. Unfortunately I'll be sleeping then because I'm in Europe, so good luck.

Edit: we attacked in the first place because f00dplz attacked the Bitcoin logo when he joined, before the cat was even started

Ah. I thought a red cross was drawn first on top of the cat and f00dplz tried to defend that, and eventually got annoyed and fought back. But I wasn't present and I didn't ask. Maybe there was more provocation from our side of the court than I realized 😅

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It was way before the red cross. f00dplz has always been agressive. He placed pixels on dn42 a few minutes ago, for no reason

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah. I saw that pixel now.

Maybe it was an accident because I don't see why it would be put there, but it's also not fair to make that assumption. I can't tell f00dplz what to do or don't, but I'll stop defending the cat and I'll focus on helping others out. I think it's better to be collaborative in this game to make a cool canvas together than waste time and pixels fighting each other.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

let's just say i've made quite a few mistakes and somehow never manage to hit the undo button 😹

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Hmmm..... Is it a human or a cat saying this? 🤨