War on crime is usually just a war against poor people.
Maybe try making them less poor and see how crime falls. Its only (checks notes) backed up by science.
this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2024
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Good luck with that. The biggest criminals are the incompetent politicians, there's more and worse poverty in SA now than ever before.
Somehow they can completely drain the country of money but at the same time can't find their way out of a paper bag.
South Africa is, from what I hear from south African immigrants, a hell hole of crime and corruption. It's not necessarily poor people committing all the crime. But yet these private security forces aren't going to be targeting the richer corrupt people committing the worst crimes.
It's not just economic crimes this is wanton rape, murder, and wholesale take overs of state infrastructure by organised crime outfits. This isn't normal crime like you may encounter in other countries, we are frequently topping the list in the most violent categories of crime.
Right now theres an epidemic of gender based violence, that is men raping and murdering women or male partners/spouses just outright murdering their partners. Doubt this is linked to a war against poor people.
Are you trying to tell me rich people are comminuting these crimes at parallel rates to poor people?
Im gonna press X to doubt
Also if you're telling me that the only thing stopping people from raping people, and committing senseless murders is money then that's a pretty sad indictment on humankind.
Never said it was the only thing, just the #1 thing
Frankly could not care for your opinion unless you live here, or a country with similar rates of crime.
How would that be possible when like 75% are poor? Should the rich be doing it at 3x the rate to keep up?
Lemme rephrase with your 75% example.
Your logic: If 75% are poor, then 75% of the crimes should be committed by poor people.
Reality: poor people commit most crimes.
End poverty if you want to end the bulk of crime.
End poverty if you want to end the bulk of crime.
Yeah, no one is saying that isn't the solution to a lot of crime (not sure about GBV though, it should come down with better education). Unfortunately when Mandela took over, the ANC did nothing to improve the education system for the poor, so now you can basically get through school by just showing up and sleeping in class.
Sounds like "no child left behind"
Horrible policy designed to make education EFFICIENT isntead of EFFECTIVE
Pretty much yeah.
When the kids weren't passing, instead of trying to improve their circumstances and enable them to learn more successfully as well as up skilling the teachers, their solution was to lower the pass mark. This went on for years until the pass mark got to the 30% it is today.
Then again, my Zimbabwean friend always reminds me of the time that the students were given a text book that was a year or two behind, and in protest they burned them all. There also needs to be a certain desire to learn and better yourself. There are also those who walk 1h+ to school and back every day in the sweltering heat, pouring rain and sometimes through rivers.
The priorities of the government are really only to enrich themselves and keep the populous uneducated so that their propaganda works on them.
I love my country but holy fuck, shits fucked back home.
This is what happens as the disparity in wealth grows.
This is what happens as the state gets hollowed out by decades of ANC corruption and misrule.
Sure, let's replace the bastards with worse bastards that are only there for profit and would make less profit if crime were to go down! That'll fix it! 🤦
The thing is, individual citizens can't reform the police, or ambulance services, fire brigade, or power utilities, all of which have been gutted by the ANC. All they can do is to pay, out of pocket, for private sector replacements. No one is arguing that this is better than having working public sector versions in the first place, but that's not achievable until the national government gets totally overhauled (if it ever happens).
Even public sector versions that ARENT working would be a much better situation. The only thing worse than a secretly corrupt cop is an openly for-profit private "security force" paid for by and therefore OFFICIALLY beholden to the rich and their interests above all.
I think you're trying to frame this in a Western or American context - it really doesn't apply here.
You're thinking only the rich have security, you can drive to some of the poorest areas in SA and you'll see local residents utilising private security.
It's not that these institutions are not working - they are NON EXISTENT. Imagine if the police simply stopped working, not barely functioning, I mean literally completely non-functional.
And it's not just the police force, it's electricity, water, sanitation, education, healthcare, almost every sector is either borderline non-functioning or completely non-functioning.
I think you're trying to frame this in a Western or American context
No, I'm framing it in a "rich people look out for themselves. That's how they became rich" context that's true worldwide.
You're thinking only the rich have security, you can drive to some of the poorest areas in SA and you'll see local residents utilising private security.
No, I'm saying that since the rich are the ones paying, the rest only get security if it pits the interests of the rich people. That poor people's interest sometimes align with that by happenstance doesn't make rich people de facto owning the police a good idea. Especially not when the rich people themselves are committing crimes.
I really don't understand why you're trying so hard to frame this in a rich versus poor issue.
In South Africa you can go to the middle of gangland which is easy to find because crime is so rampant, and you'll find security companies whose residents are their customers not some rich person whose decided to fund security for poor people.
I don't think you understand how serious crime is here that everyone no matter the wealth class is being affected to such a degree that private security companies in both rich and poor areas are the only effective combat against the wave of terror.
Oh dude let me inform you about the state of crime in South Africa - we've had instances where police stations have been firebombed by criminals raiding the weapons store, any property not being guarded being stolen from lawn chairs to vehicles, the unusually high rate crime: 21000+ murders per year, 42000+ rapes per year and that's officially reported stats from the SAPS.
I've seen people being kidnapped, I have even had family and friends who have been kidnapped, women raped and murdered in my locality, countless hijacking and aggravated robberies. I am part of the local CPF so I am on constant communication with police and security companies.
Often the police are completely reliant or heavily rely on security companies. These security companies are often the only people standing in the face of lawlessness. Not necessarily in the wealthiest areas either.
Not necessarily in the wealthiest areas
That you need to point this out illustrates my point: the private security armies are there to protect the people who pay them and their interests. If the boss has interests in a less wealthy area, that might be protected too. Maybe.
That's not law enforcement, that's an anarcho-capitalist nightmare!
the private security armies are there to protect the people who pay them and their interests
Is that not how publicly funded security services work, too?
Pretty much saying that poor people have an interest in hiring private security so there's security companies in poorer areas too this is not a rich thing this is a crime is rampant issue. But I guess you live here so you understand the situation on the ground.
Isreal trained a lot if SA private security forces. This feels like propaganda against SA by isreal considering the timing and SA's efforts to stop the genocide of Palestinians.
Israel. The name is Israel.
Dyslexia is a bitch. I was so close.
Thank god for the Isrealis then because god damn this country would be more fucked somehow.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
It’s an all-too-common story in South Africa, a country that in the past year has seen an average of 75 killings and 400 robberies with aggravating circumstances every day, according to official statistics.
Experts have warned that the South African police are losing the battle against crime — and that has led those citizens who can afford it to turn to a booming private security industry.
“It’s not getting better, it is getting worse,” said Anton Koen, a former police officer who now runs a private security firm that specializes in tracking and recovering hijacked and stolen vehicles.
Associated Press journalists accompanied private security officers on patrols around suburbs in east Johannesburg, where it was evident they were performing the role of the police in many circumstances.
During one of the patrols, Koen sped to where two suspects had been apprehended by other private security personnel after a vehicle they were traveling in was linked to burglaries and armed robberies.
In an indication that police are overwhelmed, local government authorities in the Gauteng province that includes Johannesburg, South Africa’s largest city, have recently introduced their own crime wardens to help with law enforcement.
The original article contains 1,002 words, the summary contains 193 words. Saved 81%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Private security companies earn a monthly fee for patrolling neighborhoods and providing armed response to their clients’ alarm systems. They also offer tracking and car recovery services, which often results in them getting involved in high-speed chases of car thieves and hijackers.
Emphasis mine. How does getting payed from a private individual give you access to armed responses to anything? If that is legal no wonder why the police is failing at maintaining the law.