Arch Linux. You'll have to rip it from my cold dead hands. Although... with Gentoo adding binary packages I may give it a try because I like the freedom it gives you, but I never wanted to deal with the compile times on ancient hardware so this actually gives me an excuse to finally try it out. You can mix source and binary packages which is nice so that you can compile things that you actually want to compile from source, and just use binary packages for most other things (like the base system) where you don't mind that they're using generic and probably not optimal compile flags.
this post was submitted on 07 Jan 2024
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How bad were the compile times for you? I ran gentoo on a 700mhz p3 many years ago and it was relatively quick. Not as fast as installing 200 dependencies for going minimal to graphical in five minutes, but certainly not slow.
It can vary a great deal based on your setup. A lot of people go and enable the ~arch keyword globally to get bleeding edge versions of everything, but this increases the update frequency dramatically compared to using stable versions. Likewise, the number of dependencies and installed packages can grow or shrink dramatically depending on which system profile and USE flags you select.
Personally, I run a general all-around desktop which I use for gaming, hacking, and various hobbies. I have about 2000 packages installed, and I end up recompiling about 100-150 of them every week. The process takes a couple hours on an overclocked i7-4790k (8 threads at 4.6GHz).
The default Genkernel config (pretty much nabbed from Fedora) takes the better part of an hour to compile, and packages like Firefox can take even longer - with individual compilation units reaching sizes over 2GB (i.e. it will exhaust 16GB of RAM with 8 threads compiling).
There are binary packages for these monsters, but for a general purpose system it is a lot of compiling. If you want something with less compiling, you need to pull out the machete and decide which features you're willing to part with. Gentoo shines like no other when it comes to designing bespoke minimalist systems though.
Back in the day I also used to run Gentoo on these ancient beige plastic 32 bit trash computers. The complexity of software has grown across the board since those days, such that it would be practically impossible to use them unless you become a full-blown Suckless person.
How much of that do you think is more complex software versus more complex instruction sets (I’m thinking about i686) versus wistful memories of the past?
I think it is genuinely the software. I don't think the instruction set matters all that much. Everything was much more bare-bones 20 years ago, from terminal emulators to browsers to desktop environments to word processors to code editors to games to media players. I wouldn't call the change bloat exactly, but software projects have grown immensely more robust. The kernel is constantly gaining new device drivers and rarely shedding them. The browser has evolved into an operating system unto itself. Instead of just building X11 and a lightweight window manager like XFCE we now have wayland compositors - which, while much more architecturally simple, carry the baggage of XWayland for compatibility anyway. We have a whole slew of graphics stacks from Vulkan to OpenGL to GLES, a whole slew of GUI toolkits from Xlib to GTK+ to Qt to wxWidgets to FLTK (each with dozens of language bindings), a whole slew of new programming languages such as Go and Rust along with their own whole ecosystems of libraries and dependencies, a whole slew of additional daemons running in the background to make basic shit like plug-and-play device detection, power management, bluetooth, etc. work. We've got more filesystems, more audio/video codecs, more compression algorithms, more file formats in general. Syntax highlighting which used to be done by naive Scintilla controls is now managed by robust language servers. The coverage provided by compatibility layers like Wine has only expanded, and targets more operating system versions than even existed when it was introduced.
Don't get me wrong, a lot of it is bloat too, but the state of the art has shifted profoundly since the dawn of the millennium.
Maybe sometime this month I’ll install gentoo again and see how different it is on modern hardware.
It took me a little over a day and a half to get a base install (no desktop environment or anything) on an old netbook w/ a Pentium U5400, and this was back before binary packages existed for things like Firefox. I don't want to imagine how long it would take to compile WebKit, Firefox, and all of GNOME on that. I've since upgraded a decent amount to a slightly newer Thinkpad, so things might go more smoothly this time around when I get around to trying it.
Wild. I always used to get a minimal system with tmux or whatever and some simple stuff like that going so I could use the system while the rest of it compiled.
Endeavour (Arch). Though I haven't been able to get the iso to boot on my new laptop yet. Garuda (also Arch) is another distro I enjoyed, which ran the Zen kernel by default.
Debian 11 on my 10 year old desktop, Debian 12 on my micro form factor desktop that I've recently bought, Archlabs on some 15 year old laptop.
Edit: Wtf, it turns out Archlabs has been discontinued. This laptop is cursed. First Crunchbang, now Archlabs, I swear this laptop just attracts distros that don't last for whatever reason.
Arch Linux, Guix, Fedora, Alpine, postmarketOS, archlinux32
Guix on an old laptop.
Archlinux32 on an older laptop,
Fedora on a workstation,
Alpine on servers
postmarketOS on pinephone
Arch Linux on main laptop + other computers + a server
Debian stable.
I distro-hopped for years until I landed on Fedora, and I haven't looked back since.
Reasons:
- Vanilla GNOME
- No baked in ads or weird stuff like snap (Ubuntu)
- Easy to install
- Good mix of stability and up-to-date packages
- Mainstream enough to have official RPM downloads for proprietary software
I just wish it could include proprietary media codecs by default. I prefer pragmatism over FOSS purity tbh.
I just wish it could include proprietary media codecs by default
you may find interest in the Nobara linux distro. its Fedora but the default install requires almost no fiddling to be usable
Thanks for the recommendation. I wasn't aware of that project, and it does look promising.
proprietary media codecs
I recommend you watch this video, it goes over why the change was made, it was actually more about pragmatism and very less about "FOSS Purity"
Fedora is a very nice distro, definitely one the definitive leaders in the GNU/Linux space, so many new technologies like Pipewire and Wayland are pioneered in Fedora. I wish more distros were like Fedora and less like Ubuntu.
Kinoite and Tails currently.
Everything I own runs kubuntu except my phone.
Debian on my day to day laptop and PopOS on my gaming laptop.
Rocking Pop OS with KDE on my laptop. I chose Pop due to a lot of positive buzz around ease of use and pre-existing experience using Ubuntu/Debian. Works great for my basic web and office tasks and the occasional light game.
Ditto. And coming from windows 10 PopOS is a huge upgrade.
All my servers are Debian, I don’t currently have a desktop installation right now, but if I did it would probably be Debian still. As far as DE, I was always partial to XFCE, but the newer Gnome has also grown on me a little.
Debian all around. Stable on servers, testing on my workstations.
NixOS on everything at the moment. I'd like to try Guix some time soon
Still on Ubuntu, but I'm going to jump soon. I would like something with a similar dock. I'm actually working on my own launcher/dock that I'll share when it's ready.
Debian stable. The yugo of linux.
debian stable on my servers, for my desktop im using Nobara Linux which is just plain Fedora but it comes with everything and the kitchen sink pre-installed and ready to go (i dont have time to fiddle with my PC all day to make stuff work). its maintained by the same guy who does the Proton-GE fork
gentoo
Also Gentoo
opensuse tumbleweed with kde
Since you’re including bsd, I got some macs too.
I wouldn't count MacOS as BSD variant if that's what you mean since the goal of MacOS is control the user with nonfree software (and locked down and soldered hardware). There's also a complicated techical history of the modern macOS system with redesigns and whatnot.
Most GNU/Linux distros offer nonfree software, but as a compatability request from users rather than seeking control.
I was more thinking along the lines of FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
I understand what you mean, but it’s not a bsd variant, it’s literally bsd in a deeper and more fundamental way than any of the 3.0(? I don’t remember my history perfectly) spinoffs.
I would also push back on the idea that the bsds were ever about liberating one’s computing to begin with since their more permissive license famously stood in opposition to the “viral” licenses, but that’s kinda semantics.
Edit: for posterity, I had macos’ relationship with bsd and Unix confused. Macos is still a bsd variant(4.4), but Unix is the thing it is that nearly nothing else is.
That's just licensing, the two distros I just mentioned (especially OpenBSD) pride themselves on great user control and simplicity.
Even with permissive licenses, the intent is still to regain control. It just wastes an opportunity to safeguard those freedoms with copyleft. Permissive licenses are a valid strategy for things like proprietary file formats where one wants to be able to displace the proprietary version. It's just a wasted opportunity in other situations.
replies in netbsd
Seriously though, plenty of the oses that get lumped in with debian and the eff are just not. The bsd licenses for example allowed stuff like selling it unchanged with your own logo, or using a dongle or cryptographic lock to enforce your own payment schedule.
Anyway, I’m not trying to start a fight or drag a fight from a thirty year old newsgroup over here, it’s mainly a semantic point that obviously I know what you mean, but some of the stuff we both understand and accept as being in that category are explicitly not.
I also looked at the flowchart and while macos is bsd (4.4!), what I was conflating was its bsd-ness and it’s much more unique nowadays Unix 03-ness.
Per rfc827649, cheers goes here.
Good semantics argument. Honestly I was testing out this whole new FOS acronym to be more generic and a solution to "FOSS" while still having the benefit of being an easy acronym.
Fedora KDE on the laptop, Arch on the desktop, Debian on the server
Debian. Been my distro of choice for roughly 5 years. No reason to change anytime soon.
I'm a lib so I use Linux Mint.
NixOS with Hyprland. I don't see myself changing unless something comes along that is just better NixOS. It's perfect for someone like me who loves to tinker but doesn't want to deal with the pain when that tinkering blows up in my face. I know I can set up other distros to have easy rollbacks like NixOS but the fact that it basically forces me to self document the changes I'm making while I'm doing them + the built in rollbacks and atomic upgrades make it essentially impossible for me to break. Even if I want to do something like have the bleeding edge version of one package and the stable version of another that have a shared dependency, it just works.
Getting started was a pain and it feels like I'm learning how to Linux all over again but I'm six or so months in and I'd say it's been worth it.
Alpine with KDE on my personal computer, a lightly modded librem 13 gen1 (not a brand i recomend). For client work I use Manjaro and some kind of Dell laptop.
i have a shitty little fork of inferno that i do a lot of my blogging and stuff with. currently runs in docker on my personal computer because i haven't had the time to figure out how to get it building or running under musl libc.
Kubuntu