this post was submitted on 01 Jan 2024
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theory

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A community for in-depth discussion of books, posts that are better suited for [email protected] will be removed.

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submitted 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

Format

  • Reading Volumes 1, 2, and 3 in one year. This will repeat yearly until communism is achieved. (Volume IV, often published under the title Theories of Surplus Value, will not be included, but comrades are welcome to set up other bookclubs.) This works out to about 6½ pages a day for a year, 46 pages a week.

  • I'll post the readings at the start of each week and @mention anybody interested. Discuss the week's reading in the comments.

  • Use any translation/edition you like.

Resources

(These are not expected reading, these are here to help you if you so choose)

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)
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[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

i’d love to take part - thanks so much for hosting this, i’ve really found this text to be impenetrable on my own and i want to understand it the best i can.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

@[email protected] does this tag work for you?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Guess I have no excuse now. Let's do it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 10 months ago

OK, I'm joining. Now or never lets-fucking-go

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

At risk of spamming this thread (I have work tomorrow so getting my thoughts out now) I wanted to pose a starter question just to get some discussion flowing.

What are use-value and exchange-value? Why does Marx highlight these two things and their relationship in the first chapter?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Use-value is the value of an object in the eyes of the consumer, the actual value that it provides when it is used. The use-value of an apple -> it nurtures your body.

Exchange-value is the quantifiable value of an object in an exchange. How does the value apple measure against an orange? The exchange-value of an apple -> the number of socially necessary labor time to produce it (according to the labor theory of value).

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Nice. So use-value relates to use, and exchange-value relates to exchange. That's a good starting point, but still seems a bit murky ... both definitions refer to "value" but in seemingly different meaning... can you explain that difference in meaning?

I think these two paragraphs give an initial description of the two, although Marx indicates it is incomplete:

Use-value vs. exchange-value

The utility of a thing makes it a use value. But this utility is not a thing of air. Being limited by the physical properties of the commodity, it has no existence apart from that commodity. A commodity, such as iron, corn, or a diamond, is therefore, so far as it is a material thing, a use value, something useful. This property of a commodity is independent of the amount of labour required to appropriate its useful qualities. When treating of use value, we always assume to be dealing with definite quantities, such as dozens of watches, yards of linen, or tons of iron. The use values of commodities furnish the material for a special study, that of the commercial knowledge of commodities. Use values become a reality only by use or consumption: they also constitute the substance of all wealth, whatever may be the social form of that wealth. In the form of society we are about to consider, they are, in addition, the material depositories of exchange value.

Exchange value, at first sight, presents itself as a quantitative relation, as the proportion in which values in use of one sort are exchanged for those of another sort, a relation constantly changing with time and place. Hence exchange value appears to be something accidental and purely relative, and consequently an intrinsic value, i.e., an exchange value that is inseparably connected with, inherent in commodities, seems a contradiction in terms. Let us consider the matter a little more closely.

Two things that jump out at me:

  1. Marx oscillates between use-value being something commodities are and something commodities have as a property (being versus having). So depending on context, a commodity is a use-value, or it has use-value.
  2. Exchange-value is a relation between commodities, so unlike use-value, we are no longer talking about a single commodity in isolation.
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[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Are there any prerequisites for understanding? I’ve never taken things like calculus or Econ, for example :(

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

Read Synopsis of Capital. Engels wrote this as a study guide/summary for Capital. He didn't complete it and the latter parts of the synopsis are incredibly half-assed to the point of him using phrases instead of sentences, but the beginning parts, the parts that almost everyone struggles with, are complete.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

I have a degree in econ and it's all useless baggage you have to unlearn. You're in a great place for kapital

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

It's not as bad as you'd think. Marx is very repetitive with his concepts. Almost annoyingly so.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Is the plan to discuss here or will we open a discussion thread on the 7th or so?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Actually I have changed my mind. It will be cleaner and people will get less lost if I make a thread for each chunk.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

So on the 7th you will open a new thread to discuss chapter 1? Or will that be for chapter 2?

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