this post was submitted on 27 Dec 2023
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India

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[–] [email protected] 77 points 10 months ago (4 children)

One major reason I'd not want to go to India is that there seems to be a significant crowd of Nationalists that would rather deny any issues than face and fix them, and can be quite hostile to anyone that points then out. I don't really care for the "apes" commentary as that seems racist AF, but if tourism is a goal then cleaning up regressive bullshit like caste and gender discrimination (and not conducting assassinations on foreign soil then getting hostile when called on it) would be a good start.

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[–] [email protected] 66 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (19 children)

So, I have been both working, studying, and spent leisure time in India about a year in total. I lived for 6 months outside New Delhi in the slums. Made interview among tribes and people displaced by established nature tourism. Together with my wife. Been to tourist spots as well.

Yea you are kind of like a bunch of school kids sometimes. Just a bit scarier. I only encountered the grandiose self image besides India in the US.

My wife could not be alone a second.

The fascist Hindu nationalism is awful to see , for a western fascist probably laughable.

Just to be plain: You think India is best in all the ways , for an outsider it's like a bunch of people throwing everything in a pile and letting the strongest win.

Just the amount of people trying to prove forced marriage is so much better than the possibility for divorce or just marry who you want.

Of course different rules based on caste , one of my Indian friends who is kind of famous in the movie business still have a hard time based on his last name and actually trying to do some good in India.

The ads in your papers sounds like you selling cows rather than your sisters and daughters.

Don't get me wrong there are great people , great movements and great things in India.

But overall WTF...

Today I would not return for leisure unless to visit friends there.

*Edited due to poor wordings.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Awhile ago I learned that there's a thing called casteism. I thought racism was extremely stupid, but casteism just cranks the stupidity to 11. So instead of discriminating against someone's skin tone or nationality, you're discriminating against literally nothing??? Whatever, man...

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago

From what I heard in podcasts this is even a serious problem in the US tech scene, which hires a lot of professionals from India. Imagine being descriminated against by your manager because of caste in silicon valley.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Yea Hindu nationalism is kind of built around that. If you are poor you are poor because you deserve it. And we are rich because we deserve it etc..

Interviewed a guy from the Communist party about caste among other thing and even they have a hard time getting people out of the caste think among their own members.

It's so hard rooted you need a revolution to even scratch the surface of it.

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[–] [email protected] 62 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

Ok folks, keep your comments focused on the money and ignore the sexual violence. Great job.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (5 children)

There's like 4 threads here, If you want to talk about it, talk about it. don't whine that someone else didn't start the conversation

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

I agree with you but he is kinda doing it.

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[–] [email protected] 58 points 10 months ago (5 children)

In fairness, “you ARE rich”

most tourists don’t realize how rich they are for being able to travel and don’t really understand poverty and the depths of poverty that exist in other countries.

[–] [email protected] 38 points 10 months ago

the depths of poverty that exist in other countries.

They rarely understand the poverty that exists in their own countries.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but back in the home countries the rich are not fleeced for their money for regular services and goods.

People are willing to pay more money but the "I am entitled to your money" makes it feel like they are being taken advantage of.

They might as well go to a relatively more expensive country(more expensive than the "tourist prices" in india) to avoid feeling othered.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago

Yep, it feels unfair.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

So much this. It's sure to be a rough figure, but I quickly found someone calculating the percentage of people travelling internationally in 2018: it's 2 %. Let's say he's off by a lot (and assuming only a fraction of people with the money actually travel) and go with 10%, that's still a pretty elusive circle of rich people right there.

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Judging from the train videos, I don't think they can entice me. Too crowded. No hate intended. I don't like crowds.

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[–] [email protected] 26 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Why does this website look like a newspaper? Does Quora print a newspaper somewhere.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 10 months ago

I think this is an Indian newspaper which has printed this question from quora to show it's readers. I say indian newspaper because the design looks familiar.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Some of these are legit, but the money ones are bullshit. Especially entrance fees to national monuments. I think of it not as an extra charge for tourists, but as a discount for locals.

I live in the US, but was able to travel to India 25 years ago. It was an unforgettable experience for me, and I would love to return someday. I must say however, that my wife is less excited by the prospect. I would like to think that India's reputation along these lines is both exaggerated and improving.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 10 months ago

Indeed, I think that people in a country should be able to see their national monuments/treasures at a reduced cost. It's pretty likely that at some point their taxes paid for some of it, and making such things only for tourists is lame.

During Covid here (Canada), locals were given free access to national park, and the restricted tourist traffic meant that people were actually able to find camping spots (many of them get gobbled up and pre-booked by tourism agencies/bots). A lot of people realized there was a lot of the country that they had been missing simply because the industry prioritized tourists over locals. If you're going to a country as a tourist, budget and plan to pay as a tourist!

[–] [email protected] 18 points 10 months ago (7 children)

The money one would be perfectly fine if it was an explicitly stated official policy where Indians get cheaper access to their own tourist attractions and cultural sites. I think it probably starts to get annoying if everything you pay for is marked up by some amount on the spot by chancers who are taking advantage of your naivety. I haven't been to India so I don't know if this is a big problem or a rare occurrence, but I have heard of it happening before, typically in poorer countries.

Lifting people out of poverty by giving them honest jobs with livable wages is probably the only way to fix this, because poverty creates desperation and desperation can lead some people to petty theft, or a host of other personal and social problems.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (4 children)

That's just semantics, like businesses being banned from giving a surcharge for using a credit card, but they can give a discount for cash. It amounts to the same thing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

I guess. But either is fine with me. Credit cards have leverage over small businesses who often have tight margins. As for up-charging tourists who visit places in foreign countries, I think of it as a subsidy. If they normalized the entrance fees so that all paid the same, and the total maintenance costs were met-- this may well 'price out' poorer locals. A nicer solution might be income-based, but how would you verify such information at a park entrance?

I also want to add that where I live in California, there are some local attractions that offer discounts to local residents. I really can't understand the fuss.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 10 months ago (3 children)

FYI: RS 750 is $9. Doesn't seem that unreasonable to me 🤷

In fact, India should charge every foreign tourist RS 830 (~$10) except the British who should have to pay RS 1660 (~£15) but it comes with biscuits and have little shops that sell overpriced tea 👍

[–] [email protected] 30 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm from Pakistan so it's not like I can ever get a visa to India in the first place but why do this? Why make an entire nationality pay more money because of events they were never involved in? If this is supposed to act as "reparations" then again, why are you charging people who are already paying a lot of money to get to the country?

[–] [email protected] 7 points 10 months ago

They do this in Thailand. When you live here & don’t pull in the same income as before but can speak the language & whatnot, it feels awful to be treated as such an other when your local community accepts you. You also need to understand how they check which is normally just a skin color check—I’ve spoken to Filipinos that never get the foreigner rate. The worst one for me was in Laos where I was joking in Lao with the staff & had to pay the price, but some ethnic Lao folks from France got the local price despite not speaking a lick & asking me local culture questions in English. I didn’t hold it against them personally, but it really sucks.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Ending femicide and rape culture might also help.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago

India is murdering people in Canada and the US. I'll hold off visiting until they stop with that.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago

reach U$D20K in nominal GDP per capita

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