this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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From the linked article…

In a day and age when literally everyone connected to a film production gets a credit, from craft services to on-set teachers of child actors to random “production babies” who didn’t even work on a film, it is utterly incomprehensible that vfx artists, whose work makes possible the final images that appear onscreen, are routinely omitted from screen credits.

I can attest to this, having worked in the field. Most of the work in TV and cinema goes uncredited, with team leaders or just the post houses at most being recognized with an end credit placement (by contract, of course). I understand totally that it is always a team effort and hardly any of the viewing public sits through the entire end credits roll. I totally get it. But when it happens that you are included, that small token of recognition does remind you why you're doing 12-hour days erasing power lines, making day look like night, adding/removing people and/or signage from shots they weren't supposed to be in and pushing greenscreened people in front of moving cars.

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[–] [email protected] 100 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Is that really up to Nolan? I don't know anything about the industry but is a director in charge of making sure everyone is credited?

[–] [email protected] 78 points 1 year ago (4 children)

He's also a producer in all his films. He definitely has the clout and oversight to ensure its done. But he's also a luddite and so it's not natural for his brain to consider things like that. Remember, this is a guy that doesn't even have a mobile phone.

[–] [email protected] 61 points 1 year ago

I mean, there are also production offices, editors, post-production supervisors, and Universal's contract with DNEG involved.

If he missed it, then so did dozens of other people. Though the fact that DNEG just laid off like 8% off their workforce in London makes me think that it was a deliberate decision from the studios rather than "Nolan forgetting to do it"

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As a director and writer, he wants his name to to be seen, to tell people it's his film. As a producer, he makes sure the actors appear in the correct order. After that, it's someone else's problem.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Surely as an actor and director, those people that were integral to achieving his vision getting the recognition they deserve should, ordinarily, be his problem?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes. Typing their names into the credits roll however, isn't.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm sure most studios have an unpaid intern for that.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Which is why we're in this mess.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

He is not wrong... :)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

a luddite?
that'd quite pathethic coming from someone working at the top of one of the most technology-dependent industry existing today..

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe I'm using the wrong terminology. But he's on record as saying he doesn't like modern technology and will always use analog whenever possible.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

And from the article you posted elsewhere, the "Luddite" term comes from his children because he doesn't use a smartphone. Which he basically says if he had one it would negatively affect his creative productivity. I don't think that's unreasonable.

There's also nothing inherently wrong with practical effects and film stock. On top of that, the practical effects he uses in camera are rarely untouched by digital vfx

There's still no defense for leaving work uncredited

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

He's also producer.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Probably not, but the movie is pretty much defined by him. It's not just Oppenheimer, it's "Christopher Nolan's Oppenheimer".

[–] [email protected] 80 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

As someone who had his name left out of film credits before (actually, it listed the guy’s name who didn’t get the role I got instead of mine), I know how this stings. Sadly film & television is full of neglectful morons, they fuck up, ultimately all you can do is move on.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

it listed the guy’s name who didn’t get the role I got instead of mine

That’s particularly rough. I’d be livid. Did the mistake stay in the credits for subsequent publications of the project?

Surely the producers could update the credits when the error is discovered?

Assuming the film is listed on IMDb, were you not credited anywhere?

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

I was very young then and much easier to push around. This was well before IMDB existed.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago

At some point, when it comes to the way VFX people are treated in the industry, it goes beyond simple neglect imo. These people are constantly being fucked over.

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[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think the various unions are the only reason anybody gets a credit at all. George Lucas got fined for not putting enough credits at the start of Star Wars, iirc.

Kind of sucky that people get no credit, although sitting through the credits of Red Dead Redemption 2 will probably give an idea of why they don't list everybody at every studio and contracted company that worked on it, since they were about half an hour long.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The fine Lucas got was from omitting the director's credit from the start of the movie. It's not like anybody was defending the guys doing the work behind the scenes.

Relevant wikipedia entry

This might be a needless nitpick, but had to bring it up, as it's not the first time I've come across this.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

Yeah, that's the one. The director's guild (not union, although I guess similar) imposed the fine, even though it was his own name he omitted.

Even James Earl Jones didn't get a credit although that was at his own request apparently. He'd rattled through the lines in like 2 hours, pocketed his money and went home. Didn't feel he'd deserved it, vs the poor guy who'd sweated in a suit for weeks and didn't even get to be seen or heard.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (7 children)

This is a really interesting issue within the industry. I work within the film and television industry, both in Australia and the UK, and have never been credited for the roles that I do that, some would argue, should be credited for.

But when you break down something like a mega-Hollywood-super-feature-blockbuster-film like Oppenheimer, the amount of ancillary and auxiliary bodies working on a movie like this, would amount to a credit role that would be very hard to keep track of.

For example, do you credit the data wranglers who might be assisting the DIT, or the courier service who delivers dailies to the post house? Or the team of edit assistants who make proxies for OCM? Do you credit every person who was on craft catering for the entire production run?

On one hand, I can see why it is “consolidated” to team leads, or heads of departments, but personally I think that ANYONE who worked on the film SHOULD be credited, as their time is equally as important as everyone else’s.

I have learnt to accept that my name won’t be appearing in any credit role, despite the hours I put in to make sure it happens, and I am okay with that, but totally understand and support anyone who feels like they should get the recognition… as I said at the start… interesting issue.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This is why we have unions who negotiate the contracts that outline who gets a credit and who doesn't. Keeping track of everyone who worked on VFX in a movie is a trivial exercise. Those comparisons to menial tasks done by interns aren't at all appropriate.

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[–] [email protected] 34 points 1 year ago (1 children)

"forgot". The guy really went above and beyond to sell his gimmick "no cgi". I've even seen some of his fanatics defend this by saying "IMAX reels can only hold 3 hours of film which is why the CGI people had to be removed from credits". As if they couldn't have been credited early in the credits and as if the movie wasn't less than 3 hours (don't know where that person was but where I am, the movie is supposed to last 2h40 something minutes, aka less than 3 hours)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

The official runtime is 180 minutes exactly, so actually is 3 hours.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (3 children)

He also claims there isn't even one CGI shot in the entire film. I don't believe that. There aren't any backgrounds filled in at all? No touch ups? If he used matte paintings you would be able to tell with IMAX, there's too much definition to pass off a painting.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don’t believe that.

Given how extremely lackluster that nuclear explosion looked, it can't be that far off from the truth.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

That was so disappointing...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While I will agree that maybe Sir Christopher is possibly stretching the truth regarding CGI (it's entirely possible there isn't one entire, totally computer-generated shot), but computer-aided, computer-enhanced, no. Especially in this day and age, everything is touched by Inferno/Flame/Smoke/Nuke/AE/Blender/Maya/blah blah blah.

When you say "matte painting" you mean traditional, non-digital, paint-on-glass? Forgive my ignorance, but why would that be any more or less noticible in IMAX?

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Damn, does his hate for VFX even extend to the people working on it?

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I wonder if it's really hate for VFX people or that they just think so little of the cheap Indian labour they used to produce this to not even mention them in the credits.

Or maybe they just wanted to hide the fact that most of the VFX was produced in India (I assume from the names and DNEGs offices), not in the US?

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[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Well, in their defense, we are a despicable lot. 🤣🤣🤣

[–] [email protected] 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

In my job, I often ghost write extensive legal arguments for Supreme Court litigation, on behalf of Senior Counsel (we call the practice ‘devilling’).

I do weeks of research, strategy, writing, rewriting, and the senior will then submit and argue my papers as their own.

Most of the time, I don’t even get to attend. I’m not officially on record. And when I do a great job, judges might praise the senior for ‘their’ excellent work, and I’ll hear about it second-hand.

It can be hard to stomach because everyone likes affirmation and appreciation for their labour, but I’ve learned to take all my satisfaction from the work alone, and doing an excellent job.

At least in my case, I know this is how it goes so it’s never a surprise. But it’s lonely behind the scenes in a thankless role.

I empathise with the uncredited, but at the end of the day the reward is in the quality of your output.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago

If you are a permanent employee and get a good salary I can follow your argument, you are a cog in a machine and get reimbursed regularly. But if you are hired project by project and get paid some lump sum (and probably not a good one), then exposure in credits and on IMDb is really valuable.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

And you have the other side of movie credits where they add the crew pets , new born kids and deceased during filming.

I geuss that for a movie like Oppenheimer the credit would last longer than the movie itself.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Actually, the film is just 15-20 minutes. Tops. Rest is credits

(Lie)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I like (lie) much better than /s ngl

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

I do, too. /s

(Lie)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

🤣🤣🤣

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

I wouldn't think the recognition from the public would be main reason. I figured that the biggest reason you'd want the credit is for future employers to see your name attached to a film. I would imagine they would be the ones to either sit through credits or search a credits database to see who worked on which films or worked on films recently.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago

This is pretty normal. When I worked in vfx the studio I worked for took out pages in variety to give everyone a credit.

Most of the people who work on a film don’t get credit. There is above the line and below the line , they get credit. Most people aren’t even on the page.

I was able to get a credit once and my parents were proud.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

At the very least add a QR code with links to a document containing all names involved. Wouldnt be hard and a database like that wouldn't cost much to run.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't like this idea at all. QR codes are just a different way of encoding a URL, so as soon as someone stops paying the hosting bill that extended credits document is gone. Credits are in the movie itself so they can't be erased or forgotten. I highly doubt a web server for a movie, even an Oscar winner, is going to be online in 20-30 years from now.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

QR codes are not encoded urls, they are a way of encoding data. They can contain 2953 bytes. What they contain is irrelevant.

A film could technically have several QR codes that had all the credits in text in them.

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

Yeh…that's all we need . More people pulling out their cellphones at the movies and shooting the screen. 🫤

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