this post was submitted on 14 Dec 2023
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Europe

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

“ Orbán left the room when the decision on enlargement was taken... This allowed for an unanimous decision from the European Council, which … was completely legal under EU law.”

This sounds almost cartoonish. Was it a coincidence or a case of “quick, while he’s gone!”

Great result anyway.

Edit: Now I’m thinking that it suited him not to object but that he couldn’t be seen to allow it, so he did it on purpose The rant online could have been the usual far-right theatrics.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

EU unblocked 10 billion euro in funds for Hungary.
It's such bullshit how they portray this as if it wasn't quid pro quo.
Good for Orban for blackmailing the shit out of them. Fucking cowards can't even admit to the truth with this "walked out of the room" bullshit.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

I never made the connection, but now that you say it, it seems obvious.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

I wish US filibusters worked like this, would stop a lot of senators from fucking around with every little thing

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago

They should have voted that all leaders must wear rainbow tie dye frocks for the rest of the summit and all summits to come.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

Remember that, to be a member of the EU, the state must comply with the Copenhagen criteria.

It’s a long process, that can take years.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 11 months ago (2 children)

It’s a long process, that can take years.

Yes, and Ukraine has been working towards it for years. Ukraine's accession to the EU here isn't a split second, "Sorry about the war" offer, it was a core demand of Euromaidan and has been a goal of Ukraine since the early 2000s.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 11 months ago

Yup, they're not there yet but they are actively working towards it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Other countries also have been working for years and are not ready yet. Just like Ukraine is not ready.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

And Ukraine clearly is not ready. They’re a weak democracy filled with corruption. The fact that they are in the middle of a war also doesn’t help.

The EU on the other hand still needs significant reform, when it comes to visibility to the general population, figuring out how to root out unanimity stuff on the EU commission, and figuring out what to do with idiots like orban. And making clear that EU law supersedes national law

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (2 children)

I agree that things need to change in the EU. It’s completely unacceptable that a couple states that went wrong can blackmail the whole union. If necessary, the EU needs to be able to suspend membership in extreme cases. And be done with unanimous agreements, and change to a majority one. The current rules are too idealistic, and didn’t account for a state going awry.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Membership suspension should be a no go. But unanimity is indeed a problem with 27 states. There should be a way for a like 70% majority, so the black sheeps can't take the whole EU ostage.

The rules are not idealistic btw. It the most pragmatic rule of the EU: it is the only way for states to accept ruling from Europe. This way, there is nothing they must do that they haven't bargained before they accept.

This is why any politician saying the EU is forcing them to do something is a big lier. Nothing in the EU is done without the approbation of each single EU country leader or its representative.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

What I mean with "idealistic" is that there are no safeguards to deal with these situations, and in my opinion, it's because in the past it was thought that once a state was inside the Union, there would be no need to become anti-union, or sabotage it's working (or there would be safeguards in place already). It's clear now that a member state can go awry, and become no compliant with the EU, ignoring EU institutions and principles. The EU needs safeguard measures for those cases.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

A majority rule will never happen. If it does, the west European countries will be in charge of the EU, which defeats the whole purpose of, you know, a union.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

There are many ways to reach a majority. You can have a weighted majority, and agree that you need 3/4 of the votes to reach an agreement. So, those countries with more people have more voting power than many small countries. There are formulas, if you look for them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Majority rule does not in any way defeat the purpose of a union, it strengthens it, but prevents one agenda, for one member, from cancelling out all the others

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


The announcement comes at a critical time for Ukraine as its counteroffensive against Russia’s invasion stalled in recent weeks and $60 billion in aid from the U.S. is stuck in Congress.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán who had vehemently opposed the opening of accession talks for Ukraine, criticized the agreement reached without him by European leaders.

Against all odds, we achieved a decision to open accession negotiations with #Ukraine and #Moldova,” Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas said.

Finnish Prime Minister Petteri Orpo similarly said the decision was “historic” and “an important message of hope for these countries and their citizens.”

The much-awaited decision came surprisingly early, as Orbán had been threatening to use his veto to block the opening of accession talks in the days leading up to the summit.

Ukraine applied to join the EU in February 2022 — just days after Russia launched its full-scale invasion of the country — and was granted candidate status in June.


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