this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
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US kids want games subscriptions and virtual currency more than games this Christmas (www.gamesindustry.biz)
submitted 1 year ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 41 points 1 year ago (3 children)

US kids are indoctrinated into a capitalist system and don’t know of any better. Fixed it for ya.

Buy games not live service scams. Subscriptions, micro transactions, loot boxes and season passes should be illegal.

The more you buy of those the less and less incentive for the big corporations to ever put out a regular game.

Games are a product not a service. Fuck your rent seeking behaviour.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I 100% agree, and I ban all of that crap from my house. We play plenty of games, but none of them have live service mechanics. The closest is I let my kids watch me play Risk, which has a BS store, but it stays out of the way.

My wife plays a live service game, but I'm working on convincing her to spend her money and time better. It's not a great example to set for our kids, but I'm putting my foot down that they don't touch any of that nonsense.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

What's wrong with live service games? It just seems like a stupid category to just eliminate on principle with how many good games there are

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Are you serious? They're predatory and don't respect the player's time. They're always trying to sell you something (currency, cosmetics, map packs, etc), and they build a sense of FOMO if you don't play every day (daily quests, updates, etc).

There are tons of great games out there that don't have that crap, and I'm happy to buy them for my kids. They have a variety of switch and PC games that aren't live service the they love.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've never felt like Tf2 and league don't respect my time. Just because some games are shit, doesn't mean they all are

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Agreed, I think those are reasonable. However, I don't want my kids playing TF2 because there's a ton of cheaters and I hear it can be a bit toxic (I haven't played recently at all), and probably not League because of the MTX to buy heroes (though that's far better than most other live service games). They can play those games when they get a bit older (again, my kids are <10).

But most other F2P games are unacceptable IMO, especially when there are much better paid games without all that nonsense.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah, I totally get not wanting kids to play online games.

The main reason I wanted to bring these things up is because it seems you have more of a problem with live service games done poorly rather than with the principle of them on their own.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Just because there are a few decent live service games doesn't change the fact that the model is predatory, just like a few good mobile games existing doesn't change the fact that mobile gaming is a cesspool of predatory games.

I will always prefer games without MTX to games with them. For every good F2P game (i.e. games that respect the player's time, aren't pay-to-win, etc), I can point to several popular, predatory games. The ratio for popular paid games is much better.

So a handful of decent games doesn't mean the model isn't terrible, it just means there are some exceptions. And I'm absolutely willing to make exceptions to my rules.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Subscriptions, microtransactions, etc do seem like training behavior to mold the ideal consumer by gradually removing the initial price shopping and value assessment shopper might have.

I'm amazed by some the monthly bills people run up.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This entire business model should cease to exist.

Games make you value arbitrary nonsense. That is what makes them games. Directly monetizing that is wildly unethical.

If it is possible for someone to spend a thousand dollars on a single video game, and not even have all possible things in that game, that's a fucking scam.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The game industry is acting like children gambling is a novel concept. What hurts one of us hurts us all.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Children aren't what make this a problem.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago

Agreed

[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Ok, but keep in mind: Kids are also fucking stupid and sometimes want things that are harmful to them.

Besides, they want the games or the things you can buy in the game. They don't actually give two shits about the subscription or currencies. They just need those to get the thing they do want. If they could get them for free, they would; same as any other person.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Yup. I have kids, and while they do well in school, they make really stupid practical decisions.

I have a few simple rules when it comes to video games:

  • no gambling - esp no loot boxes
  • no microtransactions - Fortnite, Roblox, Minecraft Bedrock edition, etc are off limits
  • no competitive multiplayer - I make an exception for a chess game, but competitive FPS is right out (my kids are <10, I'll loosen this once they can handle losing family board games)
  • no M games, but they can watch me play certain M games (will loosen this up in a few years)

I wish more parents pushed back on this nonsense.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They don't? I tell my kids flatout if it costs money NO. Mine don't really play anything without me but Sky: Children of Light, though. The steam deck w/ dock does not work as well for them as I had hoped.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Apparently, otherwise this article wouldn't be a thing. I also see a ton of videos where tweens show off cosmetics that cost potentially hundreds (depending on randomness), so they are obviously using mom or dad's credit card (definitely survivorship/selection bias). My kids' friends are getting into games like Fortnite and Roblox, so it's not just randoms online, it's actually happening in my middle-class area.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A lot of factors go into that though. If the parent allows it, the child will think it is acceptable. I've bitched so hard about ads and season passes that my kids actively avoid them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yup, and I'm worried more and more parents allow it, which puts pressure on the other kids and their parents. Just look at how lucrative Roblox is, which is targeted at kids and a very microtransaction-heavy platform.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thats just one of those bullshit things that will have to be a matter of willpower. They are legally allowed tk target children with their products. I have the downloads restricted on their tablets and just never approve Roblox when they ask for it. They did uninstall runescape when I gave them that tho :(

Edit: and these examples I give are just to show how easy it is to monitor without monitoring. I set this stuff up once.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

am spend less than 5 dollars on roblox avatar ._.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Why is the deck not working for them? How old are they? what do they (or want to) play ?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

If you look it up it is apparently a common issue with the dock. There is an issue after being put to sleep with detecting hdmi input. You have to unplug the AC adapter for 30 seconds, put it back in, and then the tv and dock will play nice.

From what I read, its not the TV. But who knows, six year olds aren't really going to do that every time to play games. They like Spyro, Rain World, Untitled Goose Game, just random stuff they've seen me play.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Damn, what a bummer. I hope they fix that fast. I'm thinking of installing Bazzite on a PC for my kids. I guess that bug is specific to the Deck's hardware, since Steam on Linux can wake up the PC just fine.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

With what I spent, I could hsve gotten them a low-mid range pc to leave hooked up to the tv.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

can they not play the microtransaction games at all

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yup, that's a hard rule I have. I'll buy them other games (they have lots to choose from), but no MTX until they're older. My kids are <10, and I'll reconsider when they're >12, but for now it's a hard no.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not even Minecraft?

I guess they could play the java edition.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes, they play the Java version a ton.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's fair. I agree that it might not be a good idea to introduce them to bedrock, at least before they gain some more impulse control.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, impulse control is not something they have currently, and the constant nagging of "pay to play X!" and whatnot would build so much FOMO that I just don't want to deal with the constant nagging.

So it's a hard no. I do allow it if their friends want to host a game to play together, but apparently there's now a Bedrock -> Java Minecraft bridge, so I'll just set that up going forward and host my own server so they can play together.

For me it's not about the money necessarily, it's about avoiding the "spend money to get dopamine hit" pattern these games are pushing. If a game needs you to constantly be spending money to enjoy it, it's not a fun game, it's a shopping spree.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm not feeling too good about that one.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago

/kidsarefuckingstupid

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I mean... OK? There's nothing wrong with just wanting stuff in a game you've played for a while and plan on sticking with. Even as an adult with adult money, I still occasionally buy things like skins in games. Because ultimately I'm not always looking for a new game to play. I like the ones I already play. Nothing wrong with throwing $20 at a game I've played for years and would easily play for just as long going forward.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I agree at a high level, but F2P games are incredibly predatory, and paid games with microtransactions aren't much better.

I have no problem buying things like unit packs or whatever in strategy games, but that's because it only impacts my experience. In an MP context, you get into peer pressure if you don't have a cool skin or whatever, and I'm not okay with that. It's even worse if skins are randomized.

I think paying for additional content (e.g. DLC) is absolutely fine, I'm opposed to buying cosmetics for MP games.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In an MP context, you get into peer pressure if you don't have a cool skin or whatever

Perhaps it's just my own experience, but I find next no no pressure whatsoever to buy skins, and never really have. Yeah, there's the occasional skin with bs particles or a broken animation and they end up being cheat skins basically, but they usually get patched fast these days.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are you a minor? Or an adult? Peer pressure tends to go away a lot once you reach adulthood.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Adult currency, but I've played since middle school

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

lies

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago

Yeah sure they do.