this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2023
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Hi /c/vegan,

I just picked up tacos from some cheap Mexican place. They don't really do anything to cater to vegans but in the past, they basically just gave me extra rice and beans and removed any cheese, cream, or meat.

Today I ordered and they put sour cream on it. I know that this place doesn't have a vegan sour cream, so it was a mistake.

For a second I thought I wouldn't eat it, but I got in a moral debate in my head and decided that at this point, the damage is already done, and I tried my best to scrape off all the sour cream and ate the tacos.

Obviously I still consumed a decent bit of sour cream which makes me sad, but I don't know, I couldn't see it being more moral to not eat it. And I don't want to call them back and harass some minimum wage workers about it either, since they've gotten it correct in the past.

TL;DR: Cheap takeout had sour cream in it, would you scrape it off and still eat it? Throw it away? Demand a refund?

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 11 months ago

It all depends on why you are a vegan. If you are trying to minimize harm, will discarding the sour cream reduce the harm? In this case no, so I say eat it. Personally I find it worse to just toss it because then it is also a waste. Will not being more careful in the future to be sure they get your order right cause harm? Potentially. I'd put your effort there... Kindly.

If it is for health reasons, you have to weigh the potential damage of eating it. For most people the risk is small and scraping it off would be fine. For a severe allergy, that wouldn't be sufficient.

Trust yourself. There are a ton of people who will tell you how to live and they will never all agree. If you are going to disappoint someone no matter what you might as well follow your heart.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 11 months ago

In my opinion, unless it gives you digestive or other tangible issues, or is physically repulsive to you, it is always morally correct to eat something instead of dumping it.

Even if you morally disagree with what the food is made of it is still better to consume it for nourishment instead of throwing it away, letting its death go to waste.

That being said, i wouldn’t eat something made with meat either. That just doesn’t work for me, I’d be gagging and throwing up during the first bite.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Just here to say I feel you and your situation. It's tough and frustrating. I've been there myself!

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago

Don't overthink it. You are not immoral because you ate half a teaspoon of sour cream you didn't want anyway. I would've done the same as I personally think it's more harmful to throw away otherwise perfectly good food. You also said yourself that they don't cater to vegans so the harm was done way before you went in the door and is going to continue. So who is really immoral here? No need to self-flagellate yourself over a sip of sauce that is produced by the million gallons. You did your part, you asked and they messed up because they don't care about veganism they just want the business.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

My personal view is that one shouldn't eat it.

Part of the rationale for going vegan is to impose economic outcomes on businesses as a result of your demand or lack thereof. Another part is to challenge the status quo and normalise a more ethical alternative.

My view in this situation is that the ethical thing to do if you asked for a vegan item and they didn't do that is to go back to this place and request that they make you a new item. This imposes a cost on the business, that hopefully means they will be more careful in the future. It also prevents your small portion of profit from fueling demand for animal products by removing or cancelling out that sale from their calculations.

The other portion, is that politely informing the shop about it, educates them on what vegans require, and also normalises veganism and challenges the carnist status quo, both to the business and others around you.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago

You did the right thing IMO. As long as you won't have any physical issues eating it, and they weren't doing it to be a dick, it's fine to eat for the reasons you mentioned. I would suggest mentioning it as nice as possible.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

I tend to avoid this situation by not buying (takeaway) food from non-vegan places. Why support the same places that profit from animal exploitation? Obviously, no ethical consumption under capitalism, but I think it's harm reduction to not buy food from non-vegan restaurants. This limits me to like one place within a 10km walk, but cooking beans and rice at home is cheaper and healthier for me anyways.

If I were to buy food from some place and they gave me something instead of my order that I don't want (especially something that makes me an accessory to murder and/or rape) I would ask for a refund. I will not harass the workers at the place, but I would take it up to management if I am not able to get a refund easily. The store should find a way to deal with the food, but they probably won't. This is just how they're set up and it's cheaper for them to dispose of it rather than give it to people who need it.

That being said, if I knew anyone around me that would need/want some food, I would offer it, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it. I definitely won't eat it, and I would rather starve to death than do so.

The only time I have ever encountered something like this would be when I was hospitalised. Despite the fact I told everyone who tended to me that I was vegan, I kept getting non-vegan food. I refused to eat it and made a fuss and asked to talk to the main person treating me and they were able to and also were the only person who could mark me down as "Vegan". So more "food" would have been given to me if I hadn't made a fuss.

Thinking about things as "the damage has already been done" leads to a bit of a slippery slope. Does this mean leather is OK, because it is a coproduct of the animal ag industry? What about the farm animals already alive? They're already here and suffering, what more harm can be done? (I'm not saying you are thinking like this, but I have seen some people argue for leather by saying something like this)

Anyways, glad there is actually a discussion on /c/vegan about veganism. Who would have thought.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

An alternative to eating it that I could think of: you could ask a friend if they’d eat it instead. Or to someone who finds it difficult to get a good meal everyday.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I’ve been in this position a fair few times. I tend to just eat it, even if there’s meat in there. Otherwise the food will just be thrown out and then my impact on the environment is even larger.

I suppose it does help that I only adhere to my vegan diet about 95% of the time. When I already occasionally cheat on my own account, it’s not as big of a deal when it happens on someone else’s account.

Usually I do complain about it, however. And/or leave it in a review. Mistakes happen, I’m usually more concerned by how they handle the mistake.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Just FYI, vegan is not a diet, but rather a philosophy (or ideology if you will) dedicated to minimising harm to and exploitation of all animals. There's no "cheat" days with morals. You're probably looking for the term "flexitarian".

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago

I’m well aware of it being a broader ideology, and it’s one I support and strive to adhere to. That being said, one’s diet can also be vegan.

Perhaps “cheating” was not the right word to use, but people can be quite complex. My conviction not to consume animal products occasionally loses out to other considerations. That doesn’t mean I consider myself to be a flexitarian.

I try to cut everyone, myself included, some slack. The “you’re not a true vegan if XYZ” does more harm than good in furthering the cause. When looking at vegan communities, this one included, I feel like we can achieve more if we cut down on the holier-than-thou attitude.