this post was submitted on 14 Mar 2024
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I think most people don't realize this but Apple Silicon is a quantum leap in computing. The only company that can achieve that kind of both power and efficiency is Apple. I say this as a proud Apple hater.
"Fanless" is mostly unheard of otherwise. Maybe some ARM SBCs but those are also very low powered.
It is not about efficiency, we already know for some time that x86 is not really efficient compared to newer architectures like arm and risc.
But no other ecosystem exists that can force such an architecture move without much much more problems.
So i would rephrase it as "The only company that can force that kind of fundamental change on its user and developers is Apple"
I am not saying it is a bad thing (just alone the rosetta translate layer is actually really impressive). Would love to have some actually good and mainstream arm options such as Linux Laptop.
Microsoft is trying the same - but royally screwing up how they deal with hardware partners. Performance wise the snapdragons they use are roughly a decade behind what Apple is doing - I have both systems for work projects.
The x86 emulation in Windows is imo better solved than rosetta - but the rest of the stack is a mess. For example, the deployment tools only got arm support a few months ago.
And Linux support on those things sucks - while using it on the M1 is great.
Snapdragon Elite is going to be a rather sizeable step forward, thanks to the Nuvia purchase. Windows on ARM exclusivity is also going to end in 2025, and apparently both AMD and Nvidia are going to have chips ready. I'm hoping Lenovo and/or Dell will put some effort into Linux support once we have better chips, and that the likes of System76, Framework, and Starlabs are able to release ARM models.
Apple silicon is in no way a 'quantum leap' over anything. Even arm's general efficiency in low power situations diminish as it enters ultrabook territory
And yet Apple Silicon competes with the best Windows Ultrabooks in existence while using 1/3 the power...
Where did you pull that from? Both amd and Intel has 20W class cpus that compete with base m-series cpus while being based on older nodes
No they don't?
OK it seems all '15W' cpus from those brands boost much higher so the wattages aren't as good as I thought but here are some that still compete:
M3 - 3nm, 20W
Amd 7840U - 4nm, 30W, 15% slower on single thread and 20% faster on multi thread.
Intel 1365U - 10nm, 25-55W, 15% slower on multi thread
AMD can compete in performance and power/Watt mid to high load, but is shit with low load efficiency. intel has nothing at all. Apple scales nicely over the complete range.
If you want a relatively small notebook with lots of RAM you also don't have options (not really AMDs fault, but hardware manufacturers seem to produce mostly shit now). Framework is pretty much the only somewhat decent option with 64GB max, if you want more there's pretty much only apple - which is way overcharging for that.
What's the application of a laptop with more than 64GB of ram?
Mobile workstation. There are some Xeon notebooks which also can take more than 64GB - but they have bad availability, cost about the same as a high end mac book pro, are significantly larger and heavier, run hot and have shitty battery life for comparable performance.
The overall hardware situation has been ridiculous for many years now. I recently got a new Dell Latitude for a customer project - runs hot, performance and runtime suck. Runs out even faster than my tiny GPD pocket 3, while providing worse performance. Compared specs - they indeed stuck a smaller battery into the business notebook than into the portable toy. We're now at a point were a Chinese niche hardware maker does better thermal management for x86 systems than any of the established manufacturers. Current AMD mobile CPUs are great - and I'd love to have a good notebook with one, just nobody bothers building it.
Because it doesn't use x86. It also costs twice as much compared to other arm based laptops, because Apple.
...and?
Also and...? We're not talking about price, we're talking about effiency.
I guess I need to be more clear.
The reason it's more efficient is because it doesn't use x86. This is not exclusive to Apple. You can buy arm laptops elsewhere.
The reason it costs twice as much is because it is Apple. This is exclusive to Apple.
Repeating yourself is not being more clear.
If there are other ARM laptops that compete on power and efficiency, I'd very much like to learn more about them. Can you share?
The price is exclusive for a number of reasons but certainly in no small part due to unparalleled power and efficiency.
ThinkPad X13s
Are you serious? This doesn't even compete with an i5, much less a M3 Super Max Ultra Pro
Because they're ARM...
...what is that supposed to mean? I know that.