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Michigan governor says not voting for Biden over Gaza war ‘supports second Trump term’
(www.theguardian.com)
this post was submitted on 26 Feb 2024
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It doesn't look like Gaza will survive til election day, so none of this can be put on Trump.
You can't blame Trump for the Gaza Genocide but you cannot claim that Trump will make any positive difference there vs Biden. And Trump WILL make destructive changes to the environment, women's rights, minority rights, trans rights, global warming, existence of democracy and establish a more fascist state. So yeah, I guess one outcome is indistinguishable from the other
Show me some meaningful changes the biden administration has made in those arenas.. We don't have federally protected trans rights. Biden ok'd new pipelines. Democrats are attacking leftists and college students and saying they are russian or chinese assets when protesting for palestine so they don't even believe in free speech. McCartheyism is on the rise and the AIPAC funded democrats don't want actual radical leftists to have any voice or power.
I'm not claiming that Biden is good, I'm claiming that Trump is worse
We've also seen what Biden will do for the environment, women's rights, minority rights, and trans rights. Nothing. This is pathetic.
Source please.
I’m sure it’s not at the level that you and I wish for, and your grievances are valid…
But calling it “nothing” and then insinuating a Trump presidency will be equally bad as another Biden term?
Come on, friend. Let’s be more rigorous than that.
You're the one defending biden, show us something that will make him look more attractive other than fear mongering about a trump presidency.
Where on this thread did I defend Biden?
Our anger at the Democratic Party not doing enough to X, Y, and Z is valid.
As far as I’m concerned, feel free to beat up on the Democratic Party.
From my perspective, I was calling out the parent poster for a lack of rigor.
A national political institution not meeting our standards is not the same as a national political institution doing nothing.
Additionally, it also doesn’t work for us to equate a Trump presidency with a second Biden term as though one clearly won’t be worse than the other for many of the values you and I seem to be mutually committed to.
Its more than not meeting our standards. It is actively working against the working and lower classes. It is not doing anything to atone for the crimes of climate change that have proven to be the fault of the US and the fossil fuel profiteers that are headquartered here. Biden and the democratic party will never attempt to seize funds from those profiteers to pay reparations to the global south. Biden and establishment democrats are not really interested in paying reparations here even. Biden thinks they did us a favor for cancelling debt if you have 12k or less. Most people have more than that from one semester of school. You also had to be paying for a set amount of time beforehand. Public service gets you a better deal but you still have to pay. Why are we the only country that has "democracy" but not social welfare anywhere near what some countries even than us have? Well because this country was always a european colonial project and it hasn't stopped being such. MAGA? No, America is an illegitimate colonial project built on slavery that hasn't been reckoned with and continues to use slavery to meet its economic goals. We are the only "democratic" country that uses forced labor as punishment during incarceration. I don't see biden or establishment democrats mentioning anything about that?! THE US STILL PROFITS OFF OF SLAVERY. Say it again and keep saying it. You are not defending some shining beacon of liberty and freedom in the darkness that is the world. America is that darkness.
I acknowledge your upset and frankly, I agree with much of what you said. I’m defending nothing.
And yet it’s still your anger at an institution not meeting your (and many others’) standards.
That’s still not the same as doing nothing, or, to put a finer point on the Trump vs Biden difference, that the Overton window in one case could even possibly trend in a direction you and I can agree is positive.
I’m done here, friend. Be well and take care of yourself.
Don't ask for evidence that something doesn't exist. Show it does exist, instead. What are Biden's wins on those issues? Every one of those things are worse today than in 2020.
regardless, Biden is obviously pro-genocide. He called himself a zionist. I'm not voting for him.
No, it doesn’t work like that. You are claiming nothing has been done on any of those issues. It's prima facie a bold and likely specious claim.
Speak honestly: have you looked for any counterexample?
Or are you content to make extreme claims, hook people in with emotion, and throw the effort onto others to check your work?
Come on.
Amazing how you have the patience to address frustrated people like that. I guess this surely is the way but encountering these baseless yet absolute accusations just makes me angry haha.
It can absolutely be put on Trump. October 7 was a response to the Abraham Accords that were championed by Trump. Those accords would put Saudi Arabia in charge of Palestinian security, which was not acceptable to Palestinians in general, or especially Hamas.
Something that isn't being talked about is the added risk because of the tensions with Iran from Trump pulling out of the nuclear deal. A lot of the unpopular moves the Biden administration has made are a direct result of that. From the start, America's top priority in all this has been to keep Iran from getting involved because that would likely be WW3.
Biden was working on the zionist project long before trump was in office.
The comment I responded to said "none of this can be put on Trump". My point was that Trump is also on the wrong side and does share some blame. I wasn't implying that Trump is solely responsible for a centuries old conflict. Yes, Biden was an influential and generally horrible Zionist in congress, a position that he still holds to this day.