this post was submitted on 13 Feb 2024
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neurodiverse

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What is Neurodivergence?

It's ADHD, Autism, OCD, schizophrenia, anxiety, depression, bi-polar, aspd, etc etc etc etc

“neurologically atypical patterns of thought or behavior”

So, it’s very broad, if you feel like it describes you then it does as far as we're concerned


Rules

1.) ableist language=post or comment will probably get removed (enforced case by case, some comments will be removed and restored due to complex situations). repeated use of ableist language=banned from comm and possibly site depending on severity. properly tagged posts with CW can use them for the purposes of discussing them

2.) always assume good faith when dealing with a fellow nd comrade especially due to lack of social awareness being a common symptom of neurodivergence

2.5) right to disengage is rigidly enforced. violations will get you purged from the comm. see rule 3 for explanation on appeals

3.) no talking over nd comrades about things you haven't personally experienced as a neurotypical chapo, you will be purged. If you're ND it is absolutely fine to give your own perspective if it conflicts with another's, but do so with empathy and the intention to learn about each other, not prove who's experience is valid. Appeal process is like appealing in user union but you dm the nd comrade you talked over with your appeal (so make it a good one) and then dm the mods with screenshot proof that you resolved it. fake screenies will get you banned from the site, we will confirm with the comrade you dm'd.

3.5) everyone has their own lived experiences, and to invalidate them is to post cringe. comments will be removed on a case by case basis depending on determined level of awareness and faith

4.) Interest Policing will not be tolerated in any form. Support your comrades in their joy!

Further rules to be added/ rules to be changed based on community input

RULES NOTE: For this community more than most we understand that the clarity and understandability of these rules is very important for allowing folks to feel comfortable, to that end please don't be afraid to be outspoken about amendments and addendums to these rules, as well as any we may have missed

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WHERE TO GET THE BOOK: http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=F6B31A8DAFD6BD39A5986833E66293E6

People have been kind enough to link the audiobook in past posts, so hopefully they'll do that here, too.

In this chapter, Dr. Price goes over those who are often found to be Autistics who discover that they have been masking their whole lives without realizing. Again, lots of Literally Me k-pain moments spread throughout for all to enjoy and cry about when traumatic memories you kinda just pushed down a long time ago come back up to the surface. Fun!

We're introduced to a few of these folks, starting with Bobbi. Bobbi is an autistic nonbinary person who was raised as a girl but never got clocked as autistic for their entire life until well into their thirties. Before that, they were just the weird kid who was shoved off to the side. Appropriately, Autistic women and gender minorities are the first group Dr. Price goes over, and how their misdiagnosis is often rooted in the "white boy who likes trains and talks like Rainman" stereotype of autism, and gender roles in general. He talks about "female Autism" and other such nonsense, and how being a social butterfly to compensate for Autism symptoms can lead to an internal life of incredible pain and needless self-sacrifice that goes completely unnoticed by everyone around the Autistic in question, and about his own gender transition as well.

After that, Dr. Price discusses the issues of ethnic minority Autistics, and how failing to mask can be downright dangerous for them, and how this necessity leads to terrible rates of underdiagnosis, and the overwhelming majority of therapists being white meaning they lack critical cultural context for the social aspects of treating Autism, not to mention how good ol' racism just turns them invisible to the people looking for more of those Sheldon Cooper types young-sheldon. And again, the necessity of masking and how it parallels code-switching, meaning that Black Autistics in particular get to navigate even more complicated social variables now, and if they don't they can end up imprisoned or dead.

After that, the outgoing Autistics who are highly verbal who are straight up told they don't have Autism to their faces becuause, you know, they're not so cringe that everybody feels okay being cruel to them without guilt. So though highly visible, their pain remains hidden, and people guilt them for it when they try to talk about it. More nuances on sensory seeking, predictability discussed.

Next, Dr. Price goes into an in-depth discussion of people with comordid conditions. ADHD is a big one (that's me!) and there's so much overlap between symptoms that some people think that they might very well be different expressions of the same thing. PTSD's another big one, and what's fun is lots of Autistic people also have PTSD from all the horrible treatment they've received from people their entire lives, including gaslighting therapists who try to "fix" them using ineffective therapies.

Lastly, there's that pesky "high functioning" label, basically "You can't be autistic because you're not a completely useless piece of shit! You can do a job that makes money, so you don't deserve to be scheduled for extermination!" There's lots to unpack in here, and I'm sure a lot of it is familiar to the people who are already interested in this book club. After that, some advice on seeking out fellow neurodivergents to find a community of similar people.

DISCUSSION:

  • Any passages or quotes that stick out to you? Experiences similar to the ones described in this chapter?
  • What hit you the hardest here?
  • Was there anything about the communities featured in this chapter that you got new insight on? New things to relate to?
  • Anything clarified in this chapter that relates to the last one for you?

Again, tag post to follow, and my thoughts later on once I have the time and energy.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Right, so I can't sleep. My thoughts.

There's a number of passages in this chapter that hit me really hard. Probably one of the hardest for me to read, looking back, because it brought up a lot of very painful thoughts and feelings and memories.

I can't related to the POC or LGBT* bits, being a cis white man, but every single thing on the "female autism" list on page 53 are things that 100% have applied to me my entire life. I'm immensely stressed out by social situations, and part of the mask is having to pretend not to be, otherwise I'm "weird," which is one of the traits that other human beings (real people) recognize marks me as one of the human-shaped things that it is 100% okay to be cruel to. (I do appreciate that Link the slinky twink aided yet another person in realizing and embracing his gender transition though, that's pretty funny tbh) Other than that, the insights about how so much of gender is a role you perform and are judged against that makes me feel a bit better about not being a traditional manly man, what with the crying and prolonged social isolation and such.

The Highly Verbal and Outgoing section, though... I'm loud. I'm a loud motherfucker. People constantly tell me I'm too loud when I'm speaking. When I get excited I raise my voice and I am almost never cognizant of it. I'm also extremely introverted due to all the times I tried being outgoing as a child and just ended up getting my feelings hurt again. I've done an exceptionally good job constructing the mask I use now. Everyone at work "loves me" according to my brother, but I don't really feel it. Most of the time I hear people talking about their social lives and love lives and just feel a dull pain threading its way through my chest and tears trying to well up, because I feel completely clueless when it comes to actually making real friends. I definitely interrupt too often and get "too enthusiastic," which is why I reflexively don't usually allow myself to get excited about anything even when I'm alone. It's damned hard for me to adjust to different social contexts, so I try to keep consistent behavior. I think it's slowly killing me:

"While they found it easy to make surface-level friends at the bar where they worked, they say that bonding with someone in a deeper way proved very difficult. They second-guess themselves, and are constantly running an algorithm in the back of their mind about how their actions and words will be received by others. They think a lot about how they're perceived and rarely feel at home in any community."

I spent, I'm sure, damn near $1000 on group social skills coaching sessions in 2022. I realize now of course that it helped me develop my mask more than actually teach me the skills I need to form, strengthen, and navigate relationships. I feel like this passage is exactly where I'm at right now. Everyone at work likes me. Most customers I interact with like me. Nobody is mean to me or excludes me or anything like that. Yet I am entirely suffused with the feeling that not a single person in the world cares about my feelings, because every time they slip out under the mask people don't like it. My anxiety and frustration are disturbing to people around me, and I always feel like my happiness is misplaced, and I'm terrified someone will actually see me crying while I'm silently going over paperwork in a free cubicle. Nobody calls me. Nobody texts me. Nobody invites me to do anything. I feel incredibly alone, and never more so than when I'm surrounded by people. Seas of humanity forcing salt into my wounds.

Dr. Price's bit about going into his apartment building and being overwhelmed by sounds is something I relate to directly as well. I need to use musician's earplugs at work to filter out a lot of the noise without cutting down on my ability to understand what people are saying. They're expensive, hard to maintain, and can get uncomfortable after wearing them all day. They also installed LED lighting in the office and the glare makes me hate having eyeballs.

The comorbidity section? Oh, this is my jam, having known I was ADHD since second grade, but frankly there wasn't much new insight for me here given how obsessively I've researched various aspects of ADHD the past few years. The things about people taking me stating facts as an insult, and the shitty psychological advice accompanying it, felt really familiar. And the really bizarre ways that ADHD and Autism interact leave me relating to damn-near contradictory things in this chapter. Dr. Price says his ADHD friends enlist him to find things in messes. I'm messy too, but I have a weird way of remembering exactly where I put shit based on a vague visual impression of what I remember it looking like the last time I saw it. Not just my keys, but the fold of a blanket nearby, maybe a crumpled post-it note of a particular color. And then I'll randomly tear through piles in my room for my shoes because I absentmindedly tore them off and tossed them on the ground. My ADHD can make me very time-blind, which makes me pay very close attention to the clock most of the time like an anxious compulsion. Without timepieces I really do get lost as far as sensing the passage of time.

"High-functioning" has so much bullshit packed into it. My "functioning" is very erratic. I can maintain my composure very well when I'm not overwhelmed with stress, I can instantly spot mistakes in paperwork that multiple other people overlooked, I have a vivid imagination and am a very good writer, I have a great sense of humor, a good voice, I can sing, etc. I can't balance my checkbook or keep all of my expenses in mind. I feel completely clueless in subtle social situations and constantly miss subtext. Stress overwhelms me easily and unravels all of my coping mechanisms so it can be rather alarming for people around me to see me suddenly explode or fall apart when I can't keep it up. I am at once hypersensitive to other people's emotions when directed at me and completely oblivious when I am not interacting, so mostly I feel confused and out of the loop on other people's feelings. And as I said, hearing other people talking about their successful and even unsuccessful relationships is physically painful for me at this point. I really tried putting myself out there last year and I have nothing concrete to show for it, just some very painful lessons and the wisdom I'll gain from them.

There's a lot of pain for me in this bit of the chapter; the "gifted kid" experience is one that I'm sure plenty of people here have been through. The passage that hits me hardest though is this:

"I also absorbed the idea, common to many 'gifted' children, that a person's intellectual potential belongs to society, not to themselves, and they owe the world greatness to justify their oddness."

Despite what people even here have told me, being weird is in fact something that makes people dislike you, sometimes very intensely. It's incredibly alienating and dehumanizing to realize that the reason a person doesn't want to be my friend is because they don't like the way I express my feelings, or that I have an enthusiasm for something they think is odd. If it didn't happen most of the time I could easily write it off as just a fluke, but the fact of the matter is I usually feel very discouraged when I actually open up to someone and try discussing something in earnest, without tailoring it to be something I think they'd like to hear. People tell me I'm smart. They don't really tell me I'm weird; the way they disregard my opinion and treat my feelings as an inconvenience and unconsciously exclude me from conversation makes that quite clear. But my family tells me I'm wasting my potential. You're so smart, you're so smart. If I'm so damn smart why is my life a mess, why am I miserable, and why do I fail at everything important?

My life's been mostly pain so far, to be honest. I've had few friends in my time, no real accomplishments, and trying to make myself feel good about the little gains I've made has a tendency to make me feel pathetic when I compare myself to other 37 year old men, who don't live with their moms and have real jobs and know how to make friends and date people.

I'm glad that other people are getting something out of this book club. I'm glad that there's some clarity, some comfort, some solidarity to be found here. I feel pretty awful about the world and about my life most of the time, but this place is a welcome respite. I feel like it's one of the rare places where I can actually express my thoughts in earnest and not feel like I'm completely fucking insane. I don't know how to find hope for the future, but something makes me keep going. I don't really know what that is either. I'm starting to think it doesn't matter. It's working, for now.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

"I also absorbed the idea, common to many 'gifted' children, that a person's intellectual potential belongs to society, not to themselves, and they owe the world greatness to justify their oddness."

Yyyyuuppppp. And so even though I have a chronic illness (and now know I've also been Autistic this whole time) my mind is constantly screaming at me about what I should be doing, instead of lying in a dark room with an ice pack over my eyes. I'm hoping this Autism realization liberates me from the Shoulds, but if it helps me better identify my sensory triggers and improves my health, I expect some of my friends are going to misread the situation and start getting on me again about accomplishing things.