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Nix/Silverblue users: How big is the advantage if you already have 100% automated your deployments via Ansible? (lemmy.zip)

submitted 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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There is a similar question on the site which must not be named.

My question still has a little different spin:

It seems to me that one of the biggest selling points of Nix is basically infrastructure as code. (Of course being immutable etc. is nice by itself.)

I wonder now, how big the delta is for people like me: All my desktops/servers are based on Debian stable with heavy customization, but 100% automated via Ansible. It seems to me, that a lot of the vocal Nix user (fans) switched from a pet desktop and discover IaC via Nix, and that they are in the end raving about IaC (which Nix might or might not be a good vehicle for).

When I gave Silverblue a try, I totally loved it, but then to configure it for my needs, I basically would have needed to configure the host system, some containers and overlays to replicate my Debian setup, so for me it seemed like too much effort to arrive nearly at where I started. (And of course I can use distrobox/podman and have containerized environments on Debian w/o trouble.)

Am I missing something?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (2 children)

Sorry, hard disagree from me.

Immutable distros solve a lot of problems and are IMHO a great idea. I love my SteamDeck with SteamOS, I really like Silverblue and OpenSUSEs MicroOS (Avalon or however it is called right now). For my desktops/servers Debian is the best choice right now, but my Thinkpad from 2012 which runs now happily as an entertainment machine is a perfect example where an immutable distro would be much better and practical.

Immutable distros are a solution to a real problem, and this problem is not solved by Ansible/BTRFS etc. Hell, I'll happily jump ship sooner than later. Of course, YMMV and I don't say immutable distros solve all problems for everyone, but having this option is great IMHO.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Well I tried Aeon for a month and it has been the least reliable system I’ve used since, well actually probably anything, like maybe vista I guess.

The thing is a mess and it brings nothing to the table over A/B snapshots.

The scales must be different for enterprise use because I’d never go near another immutable OS again after this terrible experience.

Maybe it’s just flatpak that’s unreliable on Aeon, I found moving electron apps into podman containers was a lot better. But on void it was fine, clearly a lot more work to do the flesh it out I goes.

Tbf SB had far less issues than Aeon.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Immutable distros are a solution to a real problem, and this problem is not solved by Ansible/BTRFS etc.

Just tell me what that problem is and how it isn't already solved with Ansible/BTRFS.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Some examples pointed out above, the big thing is the 'immutable' and bit for bit replication to the best of my knowledge.

Ansible is imperativ and applies changes to a starting state. Immutable distros replicate a known state 100%, which is in every respect superior and prevents nasty surprises Immutable distros are 100% reproducible from a config file, which is a big thing for cyber security, building software etc. Debian has too many packages given the amount of contributors they have. The immutable distros are mostly moving to flatpak, which hopefully means that the Distros can focus their energy on a great core experience, and communities like LibreOffice can focus on creating a great flatpak experience.

Nobody says that containers / and/or immutable distros are a good solution for your specific needs and use cases, that's fine. For me, and after using Silverblue for some time (and btw. containers on multiple occasions), I am looking forward to jumping ship, because I like the user experience, declarative configurations are the logical next step when using Ansible and atomic updates in the backgrounds w/o the problems of package managers are great IMHO.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Ansible is imperativ and applies changes to a starting state. Immutable distros replicate a known state 100%, which is in every respect superior and prevents nasty surprises Immutable distros are 100% reproducible from a config file, which is a big thing for cyber security, building software etc. Debian has too many packages given the amount of contributors they have.

So does Ansible. Pick something like Alpine and destroy and recreate instances whenever you need to change your setup. Done.