209
When there are slavers to shoot, we all can have a little American pride - as a treat
(media.kbin.social)
this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2024
209 points (96.0% liked)
Political Memes
5429 readers
1948 users here now
Welcome to politcal memes!
These are our rules:
Be civil
Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.
No misinformation
Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.
Posts should be memes
Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.
No bots, spam or self-promotion
Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'm a bit like this, but really honestly the institution of the US wasn't all that great even in the context of ending slavery. Lincoln (and especially Johnson after) killed radical reconstruction, which was looking like it might make revolutionary change in the status of PoC. Instead they went mega-soft on former confederates, handed power pretty much right back to them, which in turn directly caused the Jim Crow era etc. I highly recommend anyone interested to read "Black Reconstruction in America" by W.E.B. DuBois
They also were still committing genocide against the indigenous peoples of America.
Despite Lincoln's soft initial stance on Reconstruction, it's impossible to know how his opinions would have developed, considering the circumstances that arose in the rebellious states after the war and the bullet going through his head. Reconstruction managed to survive, after all, and thrive under the Grant administration, which even passed a law against segregation in public accommodations and pursued a peace policy with regards to Native American polities. It was only after Grant's administration that the gains were walked back and power returned to the former slaverocracy.
I don't think "yeah his actions kinda sucked but maybe he would have changed if he kept living" is a reasonable argument.
And I said radical reconstruction. Like land seized from slavers and given to the newly freed people (and keep conditions such that the freed people could actually keep that land), former confederates jailed and barred from ever holding office, reparations paid, etc.
Grant was still soft on Confederates, though certainly better in most aspects than Lincoln or Johnson. But a president does not a country make. Perhaps despite Grant the measures taken during his presidency were woefully inadequate and blunted.
As far as his treatment of indigenous peoples, well this quote from his first inaugural address is enough really. "the proper treatment of the original occupants of the land, the Indian, is one deserving of careful study. I will favor any course towards them which tends to their civilization, Christianization and ultimate citizenship"
When it turned out that hey, maybe the destruction of their culture and religion isn't really what they wanted- Grant's feelings were quite clear in this 1872 letter to General Schofield: “Indians who will not put themselves under the restraints required will have to be forced, even to the extent of making war upon them, to submit to measures that will insure [sic] security to the white settlers of the Territories,” - this is still absolutely genocide.
He was also the President under which the US stole the Black Hills in what is now South Dakota. First he offered to "buy" them from the Lakota and other tribes, and then when refused he sent the army in to steal them. (Though the tribes put up a damn good fight, repelling the invaders once before Grant sent reinforcements)
I don't think there's going to be any common ground between us in this discussion, but as someone with a keen interest in the period, I'll leave it that I disagree strongly with the main thrust of your argument.
Points for civility in vehement disagreement.