this post was submitted on 20 Jan 2024
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I only disagree in so far as to the people participating in that culture it absolutely dominates their life and world view, and does represent a variety of cultural affiliations, and they all share the same trait of being too online. I have absolutely met hippy-chick girl bosses. For me, most of these attitudes are simultaneous and reactionary to each other, and both represent capitalist ideology, even if manosphere trends more regressionary.
It's hard to describe if you haven't encountered it irl, but it is basically the lib version of the 'trad-wife' and usually I find it occurs in women who are ex-christians (at least in the ones who have bothered to talk about it). My assumption is that they want to be protected by a man and grew up with that being their interest, but they also want to 'be free', so the next best thing they can do is antagonize people at the bar so some man can step in and 'protect them'. It's a weird reoccurring thing and the only reason I know about it is because usually I am the one that they want to protect them even though I only met them an hour ago and I agree with the other party that they are being an asshole. The GGG attitude is far more prevalent, but I have run into this particular phenomena at least six or seven times, enough to recognize it almost on sight at this point. It absolutely stems from online 'trad-wife' rhetoric, just translated to the weird a-political bar culture.
Edit: Just to be clear, Trad-wife is also toxic, but I rarely run into that at a bar.
2nd Edit: And this is also besides the multitude of toxic behaviors that are shared between the genders at bars.
3rd edit: I get what you are saying, but as a man who happens to spend most of his time talking to both genders in bars, trust me, it is there, even among people who reject it. You probably just don't know the language to recognize it when it is occuring. Especially when I hear some of the advice that women give each other concerning men, much of it feels designed to cause more problems. But idk, my opinion is that most people are making things way more complicated than they have to because they are bored and like to play and most problems occur when one party doesn't understand the game that the other one is playing. As long as people are respecting personal boundaries at the bar, I could care less.
4th and final edit because I genuinely do not like talking about this: I will concede that perhaps it is not specifically a mentality, but more of a series of toxic behaviors that I notice. Perhaps they are completely unrelated, I'm not an anthropologist on this by any means.
Okay yeah I agree this is one thing I absolutely think represents extremely toxic attitudes for women. I see this stuff online and have absolutely encountered it irl. I'm unsure of what to call it, I don't think there's any term that embodies the attitude like the "manosphere" for men. It absolutely plays into girlboss attitudes too, but I don't think I'd consider it the same thing. That sort of "men are useless" boomer "I hate my wife" attitudes for women. I don't know how else to characterize it. I absolutely know what you're talking about but I think the phenomenon is a little fuzzier than the manosphere.
I'm not sure it's quite fair to paint it as equivalent to the manosphere. The manosphere has extremely regressive politics associated with it, you seem to start out a libertarian and end up some sort of weird esoteric carnivore fascist, whereas women with these attitudes usually just embrace normie politics, albeit with this weird caricature of what a right-winger imagines feminism is like tacked on. It also imo doesn't seem to translate into "I hate men" the same way the manosphere translates into this seething, visceral hatred of women. Even those women who do say "I hate men," it always more comes off to me as a rhetorical, emotional statement rather than an expression of some deep-seated belief about the opposite gender. It also more often seems like a reaction to very real issues facing women. Not saying men don't also face real issues which can often push them to the manosphere, but diving into the manosphere also seems to be just as often a reaction to women asking for basic respect. So it has similarities but imo it's not as concrete a phenomenon and doesn't have the same social and political causes nor consequences, or at least the consequences are not as extreme, it's mostly similar in that it's toxic attitudes based on gender. However if we're just talking toxic attitudes prevalent among young women I think whatever we can call this attitude has a very strong case, it really has seeped into a lot of diverse spaces similar to the manosphere.
I suppose it could be considered the girlboss attitudes, but idk. Girlboss attitudes also are very tied to work, like the image of the female CEO with a bunch of male underlings, or maybe Margaret Thatcher or Hillary Clinton controlling the levers of power. Work and career seem less essential to this other attitude, and it's more just concerned with relations with men regardless of career or even status. Often, yeah, it's the housewife/homemaker with a rich husband that is held up as the ideal rather than the girlboss CEO. Idk, sort of just talking based on vibes now, I think I'm out of my element a bit, but I do absolutely know what you're referring to here.