this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2024
762 points (99.1% liked)
Linux
48333 readers
887 users here now
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).
Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.
Rules
- Posts must be relevant to operating systems running the Linux kernel. GNU/Linux or otherwise.
- No misinformation
- No NSFW content
- No hate speech, bigotry, etc
Related Communities
Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Would be cool if they just straight up supported flatpaks. That's been my main way of gaming for a couple years now, and it works great. The downside is that the folder structure is confusing so it makes things like modding pretty difficult.
Maybe they'll get there eventually, considering this is their method of choice for installing 3rd party apps on SteamOS 3.0.
or, you know, you can use your distro packages
Steam's runtime is already sandbox-ception. Flatpak might be more appealing to Valve than it seems.
I see no value in switching from current situation (in-repo deb pkg + steam autoupdates) to flat/snap/farts, which I don't use at all...
It's not about you, it's about what's easier for Valve. If Valve is fine packaging, and getting bug reports, from all the different distributions, they'll keep doing things as is. But as a Linux app developer myself, I exclusively publish to Flatpak because it guarantees everyone has the same system.
you're at best uninformed about how the process actually works and what's the role of a distro maintainer, a distro project, upstream authors. Not that every piece of software has enough value to be included in this process so maybe it will make sense to package your stuff by yourself.
or, you know, you could use a much better and consistent platform
Well, no, neither approach is better than the other, it’s apples and oranges.
There will always be a place for installing native applications. In the least analysis, the container itself should probably have some dependencies packaged for the target program.
The benefits of containerisation are obvious, but it’s been a lot of work and there are still edge cases to iron out.
FreeBSD has had jails since 2000. Linux, however, only got namespaces in 2008 and the first bubblewrap release on GitHub was 2016.
I’ve been using chroots and containers for development for about 2 years now and it’s been fantastic, however, I’m still grateful I don’t have to jump inside one every time I need to write a python script.
Honestly, I'm on NixOS and it's not a bother because it saves time down the line when your script would break during a system upgrade which it doesn't on NixOS as without you telling it to, it will still use all the old dependencies. Also you already have a couple of
flake.nixfloating around you can just copy and adjust and direnv does the rest.I use debian, I'm happy and definitely have no idea what you are talking about :)
Debian is one of the distros where flatpaks are most appropriate lol, it's the best way to not have programs that are really old
Adding weird third party repositories that can cause all kinds of issues probably isn't the best idea
tbf, flatpaks are problematic shit noobs tend to appreciate because reasons. That said, beside the fact steam ships its own chroot, I'm a happy sid user and I don't even have this imaginary problem of things being 'very old' sooo ... but I can confirm you shouldn't add weird third party repos or shitty flatpaks :)
It's not just noobs that appreciate flatpak. Flatpak is good all-round.
And the problem of Debian packages being old is very much not imaginary lol. Debian has only just moved beyond Gnome 3.38/Plasma 5.20/kernel version 5.10.
That's ancient. And that's not to mention the other software repos, which are often updated at an even slower pace.
Don't assume that just because you want extremely outdated packages, everyone else must want the same.
I don't mind the old packages (I'm typing from Debian Stable right now). If that's a bother for other people Debian Stable isn't the way to go. Even I wouldn't recommend Stable on a desktop/laptop unless that person knew what they were getting themselves into. I used to run Sid a while back, but didn't want to have to deal with the mild breakage from time to time. Generally speaking it's "stable enough" for most people, especially on a daily driver.
That being said, I have a few flatpaks running, but that's mostly because they're apps that aren't packaged for Debian.
Yeah. And if it works for you, it's good. I have a headless Debian home server running in my house right now.
I'm just saying it's completely valid to not be into Debian because the packages are ancient, just as it's also completely valid to not be into Arch because the packages are too bleeding edge.
Agreed, but I think there are enough flavors of Debian to satisfy someone if they want newer packages without resorting to Flatpak/Snap/etc.
You say "resorting" like using flatpak is awful
you normally skip reading half of the comments you reply to, eh? :) ciao ciao from my debian system which does everything, including paying my rent and a bit more, w/o this shit ;)
I didn't ignore anything.
And you don't need to be so defensive. Nobody said Debian is bad or that you can't use it to make money, just that it being severely outdated can be an issue, and it can. Flatpak helps, but it doesn't completely fix it.
My comment wasn't meant to hurt your feelings.
lol I'm not defensive at all hahahaha rest assured my opinions aren't changed by such a stupid zealot conversation, also this fact you don't entirely read comments you're replying about contibute to the lulz. Don't react too bad to the money thing, one day or another you could also start working in this industry but if I could choose I'd go w/ dog training (I'm speaking for me, I'd really go that way). Cheers my friend
I dunno, it sounds awfully defensive to me. It wasn't meant to hurt you, it's just a discussion about software packaging. There's no personal attacks here.
I did read your comments, and despite trying to change the topic, create strawmen, and shout ad-hominems, it doesn't change the fact that it's reasonable to say Debian packages are often very, very old and outdated. Because they are.
That may not be an issue for you, but it is for many.
You shouldn't let that make you upset, it doesn't invalidate your use-case.
hahaha I swear to you that seeing you strain so hard to push your fallacies who knows where makes me laugh. Believe it or not, there remains a world of people out there laughing at those who use this garbage, and your social media woes will not, as usual, shift half an ounce of reality :) believe it or not, lemmy is not reality, outside those servers there is a real world :) but please, feel welcomed to keep supporting I don't know what theory, you're welcome, at least at this party :PP
Now you're just talking absolute gobbledegook.
I don't know man, the important thing is that you stay calm while I continue to mind my own business. Say hello to the computer vegans from me, and ofc stay hydrated :P and please, PLEASE, do not mumble 3h again your next response sweetie <3
It's actually a massive issue on Debian
mmh, what? :)
?
👍🏾