this post was submitted on 18 Jul 2023
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[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (28 children)

We aren't the problem, but we can be the solution.

Show you want sustainable products by only buying sustainable products. Framework is a small company but did enough damage in the enthusiast company that now Lenovo and Dell are spinning up repairable/sustainable laptop product lines for the future.

Show that you want to move on from the carbon fuels era by only buying solar and electric products.

Be an enthusiast about such products. Be positive about the impact in your daily life.

Word of mouth goes a long way, especially when you are likely the first person in everyone's network driving an electric car and their only other perception was shaped by what they read on Drudge or Fox News.

Nobody wants to hear about reducing their "carbon footprint," that's an immediate turnoff. But saying, "oh yeah I was getting a little big around the waist, decided to try eating healthier" for why you are eating clean, or "Gas prices are such a motherfucker and parts were always breaking on my old car, I couldn't afford it anymore, this electric car is simple and the only thing I ever have to replace are tires and wiper blades." That shit goes a long way.

Even little things like, "I got tired of plastic grocery bags breaking all the time, the fucking kid at the store always stuffs too much in the bag and the bags tear open in the car, plus the reusable bags are really nice and sturdy and I use them around the house for XXXX" can get people to buy reusable grocery bags.

Something about flies, honey, and vinegar.

Obviously, nothing will really change without legislation. But legislation won't change until normal people start seeing the green solution as the best solution.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

That's nice and all, but we can't be the solution by spending decisions and word of mouth of positive experiences with sustainable consumption. You semi-acknowledge that, but that's dangerous. The time for positive gradual change was 20 years ago, it's time to get nonviolently angry and demand change.

We need everyone to realize that it's far from enough to stop using plastic straws or eating less meat. We need fundamental societal and economic change that requires far more than simply adjusting consumption patterns.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Right, but this "carbon footprint was invented by BP" argument is most often used by people who outright refuse to do their part. Yes, we do need to get angry and demand change. While at the same time reducing our own impact as much as possible.

Main reason: if our demands will someday be heard, there will no longer be any meat or plastic straws available anyway. Why not get used to living without, now?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It isn't about getting used to anything or doing your part. Meat and plastic straws are the tip of the iceberg. By focusing on these factors we are constantly failing to address the issue substantially. They are convenient ways to make the problem seem like something that can by solved by a series of small adjustments. As everyone should know by now, that is wrong.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Of course it's about getting used to things. I just picked your meat and straw examples but I know there are bigger and more substantial issues. Don't underestimate the damage done by meat production though: it's huge.

Transport is a biggie. Air travel will probably never be sustainable. Time to say good bye. Simply don't fly unless it's a question of life and death. Electric cars? No. Those don't address the right problems. A niche product for niche uses. Pressure for better infrastructure, better zoning, but also buy a bicycle and at least try to not drive everywhere.

And don't get me started on fashion.

There are about 327 more issues. Don't worry: I am well aware of that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Saying there are countless issues is another one of those convenient distractions. Of course its complex and there are many factors, but we have one basic issue: greenhouse gases.

We will not get to carbon neutral(or a global net negative) by slowly getting used to things by word of mouth. Not by signalling through market forces that we are willing to pay for pea protein instead of meat. It has to be political, it has to decisive and radical action at this point. A carbon tax that makes meat much more expensive instead of being subsidized. Completely changing the funding of transportation from being car focused to public transportation focused. And, perhaps most important of all, government oversight and enforcement with teeth that does not shy away from nuking a company with fines if it steps out of line too often.

All these what YOU can do talk carries the danger of obscuring what needs to be done at a societal and global level.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Saying there are countless issues is another one of those convenient distractions. Of course its complex and there are many factors, but we have one basic issue: greenhouse gases.

We will not get to carbon neutral(or a global net negative) by slowly getting used to things by word of mouth. Not by signalling through market forces that we are willing to pay for pea protein instead of meat. It has to be political, it has to decisive and radical action at this point. A carbon tax that makes meat much more expensive instead of being subsidized. Completely changing the funding of transportation from being car focused to public transportation focused. And, perhaps most important of all, government oversight and enforcement with teeth that does not shy away from nuking a company with fines if it steps out of line too often.

All these what YOU can do talk carries the danger of obscuring what needs to be done at a societal and global level.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Somehow I have the feeling that we are, in fact, on the same page.

Yes, we need big political and societal changes (how often do I have to repeat that?). But the result will be the abscence of meat and straws and cars and airplanes. And the transition will be much smoother for the individual if he already learned how to not use them even while they are still available and affordable. Affordable in a solely monetary way, don't get me wrong! They are far from affordable from a ecological point of view.

By no means I want to obscure any issues or distract from them. On the contrary!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

In q wq all this is distracting, because there are many, many people who cling to thinking that just doing this or that is already enough. That's why I call this focus on individual lifestyle choices dangerous. It gives you a psychological out. "I've done something, so the problem is out if my hands now," is a form of complacency I see quite often.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I honestly didn't have the energy today to unpack that, you did a great job summing my thoughts up.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Sure, if you can live that way while still turning the tide, great. It's still going to take a shift in public opinion.

I am not going to do anything but reinforce popular resentment towards everything green if I walk around as the angry Asian guy. They already hate me for existing here.

But if I can convince my office of people that their next car is electric while touting the benefits of my car, that stuff spreads organically.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

The issue is that going electric already is a convenient lie we tell ourselves. We can't just replace all cars with electric ones and rhinkbthat we've solved it. We need to realize that the level of individual mobility by personal vehicle we have today is not sustainable.

Going electrical helps your individual emissions, sure, but we should be mindful that these are the pseudo solutions sold by people who would rather change nothing.

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