this post was submitted on 03 Jan 2024
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chapotraphouse

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I have complained about it before but I heard on of the guests from guerrilla history on the deprogram make this argument and it made me want to gouge my eyes out. This kind of trans historical argumentation is both stupid and unmarxist, just stop! Sorry I felt the need to vent.

These states were not imperialist and they weren't settler colonies. This framing doesn't make any fucking sense when transfered to a medieval context. Like the best you could say is that the Italian city states represented an early firm of merchant capital, but even then that is an incredibly complex phenomenon that has only a tenuous connection to modern capitalism. Calling these city states early capitalism is just a fancy way of saying "lol u hate capitalism yet you exchange good or service! Curious!"

Seriously just stop. I don't know why this set me off but it was like a week ago and I am still mad about it.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (15 children)

i mean the crusades were:

  1. fought along ethnic lines (Arab Muslim vs. European Christian)

  2. one of the involved parties was not native to the region, without any kind of real historical claim to the land (they adopted a book written based off of alleged events there as their religion, but never lived there)

  3. normal standards of warfare (such as they were) were abandoned in the conflict. Crusaders consumed human meat, executed captives, etc. without any of the (inconsistent) standards they might apply to fellow europeans.

  4. the primary goal was to extract wealth and land. European noble families were running out of land to distribute between their children, and the Arabs had a lot of valuables to loot as well.

it seems as much imperialism as the Mongols or the Romans at least. if its not imperialism, what is it? sparkling ethnic conflict?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Literally all those points aren't true or varied in truth over the 300+ year history of the conflict in the Levant.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

do you have reading suggestions or what

like i know i said a bunch of stuff unsourced but i took a college class on history and thats the gist of what they covered, i would seriously like to have better reading material

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

have you read the Very Short Introduction?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

very short. i don't think it really treats with imperial theory but it should remove you of some misconceptions

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