this post was submitted on 31 Dec 2023

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The environmental costs of EV batteries that politicians don't tend to talk about (www.cbc.ca)

submitted 10 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

82 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Along with the massive recent manufacturing investments in electric vehicle (EV) technology and talks of a greener, decarbonized future, there are some not-so-green problems.

In its latest New Energy Finance report, Bloomberg News predicts there will be some 730 million EVs on the road by 2040. The year before, Bloomberg predicted half of all U.S. vehicle sales would be battery electric by 2030.

In Canada, too, there's talk of a big economic boost with the transition to EVs — including 250,000 jobs and $48 billion a year added to the nation's economy through the creation of a domestic supply chain.

Governments have already invested tens of billions into two EV battery manufacturing plants in southwestern Ontario. However, they come with the environmental dilemma of what to do with the millions of EV batteries when they reach the end of their life.

"The rules are non-existent," said Mark Winfield, a professor at York University in Toronto and co-chair of the school's Sustainable Energy Initiative. "There is nothing as we talk to agencies on both sides of the border, the federal, provincial, state levels.

"In the case of Ontario, the answer was actually that we have no intention of doing anything about this."

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[–] [email protected] -5 points 10 months ago (3 children)

On emissions, yes.

On recyclability, no.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Ev batteries are recyclable. Not sure why you keep saying they aren’t. Oil and gas certainly aren’t recyclable.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The Used Oil Management Association of Canada (UOMA) and National Used Oil Material and Antifreeze Advisory Council (NUOMAAC) work together to coordinate the recycling of used oil and antifreeze materials, as well as oil filters and related containers, across the country. Nine industry-led provincial stewardship programs work in close collaboration to achieve environmental, economic and socio-economic successes on behalf of our members and all Canadians. Source

[–] [email protected] 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Recycle the gas burned in your car. I'll wait.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Good point!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago

It's an okay point. Yes, the oil you must change every so often can be recycled. But I'm sure we're talking about the other oil, that is, gasoline, which is absolutely not recyclable. The other poster is probably an oil and coal shill.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 months ago (1 children)

We can cheaply recycle gasoline now?

[+] [email protected] -6 points 10 months ago (3 children)

We can recycle oil (and have since the 70's). We also recycle vehicles with full frames (unibodies are more difficult) and engines.

EVs are not recyclable (yet, anyway) and are written off with far less damage (essentially unrepairable at low-speed impact accidents).

[–] [email protected] 4 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Key word was cheaply, current costs if synthetic fuels are two to four times the current market rate at best, not available to the public, and heavily limited in their inability to scale within the necessary timeframe.

Any vehicle’s metal components can be scraped and recycled, and if your talking about component reuse EVs have far, far fewer consumable parts as compared to ICEs. While you can rebuild an engine with all new consumables, we’ve also been rewiring motors for just as long, and indeed the motor has far fewer wear items that require a rebuild in the first place. Indeed given the thriving conversation space and its demand for EV parts, they are often more recycled than all but classic models of ICE. EV batteries have proven trivial to recycle, and the frame and such are practically identical to ICE versions.

The majority of plastics are single use and a landfilled, and are just as prevalent in ICE’s as EVs.

The higher rate of write offs for minor incidents is consistent across many new vehicles, and is more a case of insurers lacking a large dataset from which to draw stats from than any inherent technological factor.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't recycling oil require that you still have the oil in oil form?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 10 months ago

Oil is oil. It's either dirty or clean. Recycling it removes the dirt, and while that in no way makes it functional as a lubricant for newer engines it can be used for other manufacturing processes or be used in different products, ie: asphalt.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Do you think that lithium batteries aren't recyclable? If so, I have some news for you...

[–] [email protected] -3 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

EV = electric vehicles. I am referencing the whole vehicle, not just the battery.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Then why would you assume the whole vehicle can't be recycled? They're made out of metal and plastic like ICEVs

[–] [email protected] -1 points 10 months ago

Because right now recycling of plastics in end-of-life vehicles (ELVs) is low because of mixed composites and few markets ...

About 1.6 million vehicles are retired annually in Canada, and each of these ELVs contain about 175 kg of various plastic resins. Recycling rates for the plastics in ELVs tend to be low since there are very few end markets for these materials. Plastics from ELVs are often contaminated with other plastics and metal components, and there are not currently technologies capable of recycling all of the different plastic and multi-resin parts found in vehicles. Source

EV plastic and body recycling will be even less because of the need for composite construction in unibody design to keep the weight down, to compensate for the battery weight. Right now EVs are 1000+ lbs heavier than traditional ICE vehicles.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

These guys seem to think they’re recyclable

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-li-cycle-lithium-ion-battery-recycling-industry/

[–] [email protected] -5 points 10 months ago

EVs are the vehicles themselves, not the batteries.