this post was submitted on 26 Dec 2023
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I got talked into bankruptcy (by a bankruptcy lawyer, surprise surprise). It cleared $12k of credit cards and bank fees but not the then-$50k of student loans and the spending habits that were the real problem. Now I learned my lesson. No credit cards. Save up and pay. Have an emergency fund that can cover your expenses for months and months in the event you lose your job, or your most expensive unplanned repair. That's the real life saver.
Credit cards are fine for people who can control their spending. I never pay interest, so I get my rewards for free and am building my credit. If you cannot control your spending habits, you might consider a card with a low limit.
You mean you never pay interest by paying off the debt before the next billing cycle, right? Or is it fine to get zero interest for whatever amount of months on certain purchases?
We do both... both are fine. As long as you aren't paying fees or interest, there is no disadvantage to using credit cards.
Ah, okay, I always figured the only way to really be responsible with credit was to use credit cards like debit, but if a big purchase came along that I definitely couldn't pay off within the month, I figured it wouldn't hurt to have zero interest but wasn't sure of the impact on my credit.
As long as you have the discipline to actually pay the thing off it's fine. Many people think, "oh I have 0% interest, I'll pay it off later" but never set aside the money to do so and end up accruing interest.
I never buy something on them I couldn't immediately pay off in full when I hit buy. I've bought things in excess of my checking balance, but that's because I had enough in savings (separate from my emergency fund), and my incoming paycheck would put my checking balance well above my credit card balance.
That’s more or less the right way.
Use credit cards for everything for an automatic minimum 2% discount on all purchases (in the form of cashback or rewards depending on how you value them, and more if you optimize category spending…I.e. you have a certain card you use for gas or groceries or eating out because that card has the best rewards for that category). Enjoy sign up bonuses if you can responsibly make the spend requirement. Always pay off statement balance and never close accounts (downgrade/product-change to free cards if the benefits aren’t more valuable than the annual fee).
And enjoy 0% offers but never slip on payment because that’s how they get you. If it’s not paid in full in time or a payment is late they will charge you backdated interest. 0% financing is free money if you can afford it (and can use it) at this inflation rate. I’d been on the fence about replacing my aging appliances but 0% for 24 mos made that a no-brainer. I could afford to have bought those appliances with cash (it’d sting but it’d be doable), but I’d much rather keep that few grand in a CD or bond or mutual fund and pay a 23rd of the balance every month, making me money instead of the bank.
You lost me a little with that last part, I'm assuming that's more about investing, but I can understand weighing the options between an annual fee and rewards.
That is pretty much the right way to do credit. Treat like debit and/or find a way to have 0% interest over a few months time to spread a big cost across multiple months where it becomes affordable.
My concern is the impact on my credit from not paying back in full, even if there's zero interest for an extended period of time. Like paying an appliance in 3 months with no interest versus the full balance before the next billing cycle. I just assume there's a downside to having that convenience aside from them hoping I'll fall behind.
Short term credit balances like appliances paid off over 3 months don't affect your credit for very long. As soon as they are paid off and the balance falls off your credit report your score will rebound. It's not worth stressing about.
Personally, I pay off before next billing cycle. However, I have been fortunate with my finances. I know friends of mine who carry credit card debt, and they have successfully managed to balance transfer from one card to another using periodic balance transfer deals that let you transfer all your debt from one credit card to another with a 0% interest rate for 12 months or so. They have managed to do this for years.
So there are definitely a variety of options!
I used to feel this way with 2% cash back, but I don’t think it’s worth the privacy loss of giving a for-profit corporation all of my spending data. Where I live now, almost no one accepts credit cards in person & if they do, there’s a high minimum payment & you will be paying the transaction fee. After getting used to carrying cash again, I can confidently say I prefer the anonymity. What weirder in hindsight is many other places either not accepting cash or baking the credit fees into the prices so it’s cash payers getting screwed—meanwhile the credit companies get to skim fixed costs while providing minimal value.
Yes, you definitely need to be vigilant these days about the fees. A lot of places are passing the costs to customers or offering lower prices for cash and debit.
In France after high school you pay 170€ the first 3 years the 243€ the next two, 100€ more each year if you don't have aides from the government. Some engineering schools (~600€) or private schools are more expensive.
That's a total of 1496€ for a 5y curriculum at most, if you don't have any aides. (810€ for a shorter 3y one)
For reference the monthly minimum wage is 1398.69€ (without tax).
So if you work two months at McDonald's you can literally pay your entire education with enough room to spare if you didn't pass some years.
(Engineering schools is more but it isn't crazy either)
That's without any help, but we have some cheap apartment specifically for students, help to pay the rent. And in addition to this you can get a sizable amount depending on the income of the parents, sometimes enough to live on.
So why in the hell would you pay 50k. That's 33 times as much, guys just come to France, or the EU and your set lol
Everything you've said only stands for public university (which is better than private schools however). In the private world, you're looking at ~10000€ a year.
I believe it's more expensive for foreigners to study in France now. You're looking at ~3000€ per year IIRC.
Ho yes you're right!
It used to be the same but they increased it in 2019. They passed a reform with a lot of changes to the whole education system (including high school which add a lot of changes).
The reform was pretty bad for a lots of reasons.
Should have thought of it, every university went on strikes for it, including mine (I was just on year 1).
They passed it anyway...
So yes now its 2770€ for the first 3y and 3770€ the next 2. Granted that's still cheaper, 15,850€ total but that's only 3 times more expensive, not as crazy.
P.S. Private school can be good especially in some fields, but they're also a bit prestigious too. And 10k is a pretty good approximate i believe.
Around 3-5% is spent on textbooks alone
Your textbook is enough to pay for all of our education.
Did no one thought about having a library for that lmao.
P.S. Or more seriously on putting the material online.
I’m sure some people thought of it. But then everybody else thought “wait, but money!”
Room and board can be as much as another 20% depending on where you go.
The real cost is in living expenses though. A lot of kids still end up with 20-40k of loans after 3-5 years in school living on their own.
Sure, most people i know either have parents to help them, including some fund they made them, or get the aides for students (including cheaper and small apartment, help to pay the rent, cheap meal at campus and scholarship). Some have a mix of both like me.
It's often a bit short anyway, it isn't luxurious, but we deal with it, i never met someone that took a loan as a solution though.
But we still have living expenses in the US too, on top of the outrageous tuition costs. My bachelor's degree cost $58,000 but during those 4 years I also worked two jobs just to pay for rent and food and keep my car working. I've been out of college for over 10 years btw and still owe $40k in student loans.
How has bankruptcy affected you when you've gone to apply for things? Has there been any real long term effects when you apply for like a house or car loan?
After 7 years the bankruptcy disappears from your credit report. After that it's like it didn't happen.
I was able to get a car loan a few years after the bankruptcy. It was dumb, I hadn't fully figured out my money situation yet. Bankruptcy didn't fix that spending habit. But that was the tipping point. When my minimum expenses between the car, student loans, and living expenses exactly equaled my salary, I started trying to beat my way out of the mess. The car I currently own, I paid for up front. By the time I bought a house, the bankruptcy had disappeared off my report. Now the plan is pay off the mortgage and never have a credit score again.
Bankruptcies fall off your credit report after 7 years. I think the only thing you are blacklisted from after that 7 year period is the bank that credited you and lost money.