102
Los Angeles to allow increases on rent-controlled units
(www.nbclosangeles.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 07 Dec 2023
102 points (99.0% liked)
News
22896 readers
4062 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Inb4 neoliberal pissdrinking "economists" start claiming a lack of theoretical foundation for opposing the interests of the rent seeking class.
Read Smith, you charlatans.
https://www.adamsmithworks.org/documents/chapter-xi-of-the-rent-of-land
This has real "vaccines cause autism, do your own research" energy lol
Straw man go brrr.
It's not a straw man if I don't argue against the point. It's just me teasing you
What's the point? Seriously.
This is one of those weird pieces of economic theory that all the neoclassical people act like is settled science despite a long history of good faith studies and publications casting serious doubt.
Most rightwing publications nowdays parrot largely debunked austrian school nonsense as if other countries housing policies don't exist, or as if the ability of landlords to profit is more important than keeping people in their homes.
The point was to make a quick joke and introduce some levity.
Schools of economic theory no longer exist, in practice - though, post-covid, some new divisions are beginning to arise. Where they aren't arising is in the efficacy of rent control.
Rent control criticisms aren't "Austrian school" - they're just economic orthodoxy. We have tons of data, we've seen the impacts.
In my experience, people mostly argue their support rent control emotionally. They assume that wanting to do away with rent control means lack of empathy for the poor or not wanting the government to assist the poor in being housed, which is the exact opposite of how critics of rent control actually feel.
I want people housed and fed. I support initiatives that work, like just giving poor people cash. Our disagreement is in how effective different programs are, which is why I don't understand the hostility.
I responded to the hostility with a light joke, in an effort to defuse it. You don't need to agree with me, and you're free to hold a counter-opinion, but calling me a "piss drinker" is absurd, so you get some absurdity as a response.
Given that you claim schools of economic theory no longer exist, hypotheticals should prove useful (this is a silly thing to say).
Let's say you do ascribe to the theory that UBI under democratic socialism is an effective means of decreasing human suffering. What would stop landlords from simply increasing rents in proportion to incomes, as they are seen to do in places like SF, LA, and Seattle for example?
A policy reccomendation like a land value tax is something I think may possibly enable said ideological position, but you don't appear to be advocating for that.
Also, claiming that critics of rent control universally "feel" bad for the people they are rent seeking from is a strange position.
Opponents of rent control include the most dastardly machinations of corporate rent seeking. Opponents of rent control include real estate speculators who benefit from ever increasing property values due to artificial scarcity. Opponents of rent control include bloodthirsty businessmen who seek to pay unlivable wages lest the poorest worker be made homeless by the reserve army of labor.
Rent control makes it such that the only way a developer may increase their profits is to build more housing, a thing I believe you want to have happen.
You claim to talk about economic orthodoxy, yet you haven't even read Adam Smith?
There is a real difference between classical economics and neoclassical economics, and the disagreements between Smith and modern economists is one of the best examples of this contradiction.
So what gives? Where's the piss?
To quote the economist J.W mason from this article (its not dense like the smith quote, I swear) from 2019... In direct response to articles like the ones you quoted from the 70s and the 90s.
https://jwmason.org/slackwire/considerations-on-rent-control/
EDIT_01: also, the hostility is because not everybody is a bystander in arguments like this. Some people are forced to live a grusome and crushing existence under our system of landlords rights to profit over peoples right to live.
EDIT_02: typos, apologies
First, let's just own this - there's nothing inherently bad about landlords. That shit is meme-tier crap. Landlords have incentive to provide more, clean, livable housing. You take that shit away and you get project housing. Republicans exist. All the good intentions in the world mean jack shit when you can't guarantee Republicans don't just fuck everyone in the mouth.
That being said, building straight up projects everywhere and having the State run them would literally be better than rent control. It would be more effective, would immediately provide supply, and would aid the poorest. Problems there are, we have a small window before the GOP just nukes the program from orbit, and we'd have to find places willing to build that housing
Those are both significant challenges.
Secondly, yeah LVTs are dope. In my fantasy world, we gut zoning regs, build dense, maximize public transport, and pass a LVT as well as additional taxes on suburbs to cover their externalities. I say this while living in a suburb.
But that's a fantasy world. The real world requires us to make good decisions to claw for progress because 30+% of the country believes at least some aspect of QAnon and like 80% of Republican voters say the 2020 election was stolen. These are not serious people and they are not serious about solutions.
Rent control is a bad idea right now because it provably raises rents across the area that aren't controlled, lowers quality of housing because why would a landlord give a shit about doing a good job, suppresses building new housing, and will basically make every possible aspect of this bad situation worse for everyone involved.
Not only is this effect not seen worldwide, because of the obvious disincentive of low profitability compared to difficulty in permitting, building restrictions, etc, rates are the highest in decades, further exacerbating that disincentive. Rent control will stifle building when we are already facing an uphill climb
I agree there's a lot of noise on the system - which, honestly, is being extremely charitable to the bias of that economist writing an opinion piece that, at minimum, plays down his own understanding of the noise. He's not dumb enough to miss that things like min wage arent distortionary because min wage is on the fucking ground and wages were suppressed prior to 2020 due to excess of labor. Rising wages and lots of savings, combined with pent up demand, was the initial cause of our inflation. These are basic economic truths.
This current housing crisis exists because we can't build enough housing of any type to keep up with demand. The noise in the system he knows he is describing is because of already-distorted markets, same as wages.
We have other options. We should use them. State govs need to change their laws so local towns can't block necessary projects. We need to remove restrictions on density everywhere the ground is stable enough. We need to gentrify the entire damn country, to use hyperbolic language for effect.
These are solvable problems, and it is borne out by evidence that rent control is among the worst proposed solutions. I'd literally rather the gov just pay the difference until housing can go up.
Additionally, stop this kinda shit.
I clearly know wtf I'm talking about. I just disagree with you.
The idea that, because I oppose rent control, im either ignorant or don't give a shit about the poor is offensive, and quite dumb. I've been that person. Ive dedicated my entire adult life to helping people get out of the situation I was in. I most assuredly care.