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Bayer's Monsanto To Pay More Than $1.5 Billion Over Claims Weed-Killer Caused Cancer
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this post was submitted on 20 Nov 2023
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I have a top MSc in agricultural science 😂
I just know from experience these exchanges don't go anywhere productive, everybody has already made their mind up.
Not sure how that degree makes you an expert in toxicology or cancer research, but I sure hope you've not made your mind up about Roundup being safe. I'm not saying it's not (the WHO is) but from experience I've found that treating potentially cancer causing chemicals with extra care is less likely to well...give you cancer.
But I'm willing to hear your side. Just fyi I don't think the argument "it's the best we got right now or people starve" is any stronger than saying "we can't switch from lead pipes, the people will die of thirst".
My BSc was in pharmacology which gives me a passing familiarity with those subjects. My conclusions aren't faith-based - any strong evidence, especially toxicology data, would certainly change my mind.
I think the average agricultural worker should be much more concerned about, for example, silicosis. That's legitimately scary and ruins countless lives.
I work with dangerous machinery and chemicals all the time and my position at present is that glyphosate is orders of magnitude less dangerous than many common household solvents and cleaning products.
Then what is your thought on the specific data presented by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) and their classification of glyphosate as, "probably carcinogenic to humans"?
Pardon me but I just thought if a self-proclaimed expert in the field was going to mount a defense, I'd see a more data-oriented stance. I am an Engineer, myself, and I appreciate data-driven points. Not, "drinking lube" because it's "probably safe" and "give them a glass of shit".
Alas, my original comment was less about having an argument over the matter at this time and more shooting the shit about my past experience on Reddit. Others here shared a similar experience with vitriolic brigaders on Reddit just the same.
I don't consider myself an expert, and I accept that data. It probably does have the potential to be carcinogenic, particularly with chronic, high exposure. Many fairly innocuous things are, like eating pickles. It's a relevant concern for certain agricultural workers, but doesn't really warrant a ban.
Well that's something I can generally come to terms with. It's certainly not up to me to decide whether it's worth a ban or not and there is enough mixed data and conclusions on the subject that I don't think it's cut-and-dry, but clearly poses a risk with chronic exposure as you mention. I certainly wouldn't want my family-members exposed to it on a farm.
To the consumer down the line? Yeah, it doesn't keep me up at night. PFAS/PFOAS/forever-chemicals seem far more concerning in that respect to the end-user.
That would be a new topic for me.
Well hey, fair enough! For fun, can I challenge you on that notion? Screenshot of diploma w/ username? 😁
I'm at work - I actually do have a photo of the certificate on my phone but as you point out, that could be anybody's. I know it must seem incredibly convenient, particularly considering the added relevance of my first degree. But I wouldn't have bothered weighing in otherwise, so there's a huge selection bias at play. I also managed an organic vegetable farm for three years, which I can't prove either.
On the topic of organic farming, what's your opinion on herbicide free permaculture gardening? In a small scale distributed model I don't see why glycolphosphate would be needed if weeds are just part of the landscape.
Honestly, I've never seen it work. I've really gone off permaculture; a lot of people talk a lot but I've never seen it done well. Forest gardening is in principle a nice idea with lots of merit, and elements of that can absolutely be integrated into smallholding systems. In general however organic systems rely on a massive amount of human labour, inevitably terribly paid and worked to the bone. If I sound jaded, that's because I am!
Well if you feel comfortable and get around to it, that would boost some ethos. On the other hand I understand that may not be the most comfortable thing to do on the internet as I'm not sure I would share my engineering degree either.
I'm not keen on identifying the university. But I may share the academic transcript later, with redacted whatever.