Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
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Couple of things:
Social justice influencers acridly piling blame for social problems onto cis white males without nuance. This makes a lot of cis white males feel targeted for factors outside their control, and so they flock to ideologies that venerate them.
General dissatisfaction with career and other life prospects, in the shadow of an idyllic bygone status-quo propped up by exploitative short term policies. They saw their parents and grandparents thrive in that trad-coded utopia, and they're noticing the inadequacies of their own prospects.
So mostly those two things, exacerbated by fascist propagandists who have taken advantage of them to promote the facade of a return-to-roots. Also good old fashioned cult of personality.
I feel that point 1 is actually a fascist in disguise psyop in the first place.
You’d think that, but no, there are tons of people on the left who code “white people” as bad. It just pushes these guys (and gals) to the right.
They aren't left. They are paid assets or bots by the global fascist movement. I absolutely refuse to consider them left because their actions benefit the right. Who cares what they say, what do their actions do?
I agree with this bit, they aren’t left and their actions benefit the right. I came upon the histories of rich white men exploiting labor forces and toxic business practices to squeeze the lower classes when I was a teenager and discovered those same kind of histories had been evolved or evolve in some circles to outright hate for white people succeeding in life as if it was their white privilege and blood money inherited wealth that carried them that far. The truth I think is yea white privilege exists but also many of those people earned their place in society by working with the opportunities life made available, trying hard in school or getting into trade work and sticking with it. Of course their are many people benefiting from inherited wealth and status of their family and I imagine many of our oligarchs in America are white. Still now is not the time for these so called leftists to start outright hating every white cisgendered man or woman they meet. It only serves the enemies of progress to do that. It wrongfully ostracizes masses of white men and the only place they have to turn is to people like Ben Shapiro or other similar talking heads telling them, “look at how the left treats us and how much they want to destroy our way of life.” The left by its principles or ideals is a place of acceptance and equality. Anyone not practicing that towards all walks of life, excluding any violent extremists, is not supporting the left and should not call themselves a leftist.
You're missing nuance. They don't code white PEOPLE as bad, they code whiteNESS as bad. Whiteness is a social construct, it's not an innate characteristic. If you're white, it's because some people 500 years ago decided you were white. It's a choice that was made. It's not part of you, it's just a name for how society treats you.
So when I say "whites are evil", I'm not calling you specifically evil. I'm saying that society tells you to be evil. To reject evil is to reject whiteness and society, and that's what you should do.
To your first point, the nature of communicating right now, particularly on the internet, means there is no room to have two different voices:
You can’t have an “inside voice” (communicating to those who already agree with you and reinforcing micro-cultural support) and an “outside voice” (communicating with everyone else, potentially finding or convincing new supporters); every statement is heard by everyone and is, de facto, outside voice.
And that’s only for people who would otherwise care to differentiate— the overall culture views conflict as a virtue, and so rewards people who “tell it like it is,” ignoring the fact that you can tell it like it is in ways that don’t maximize belligerence and alienation.