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this post was submitted on 04 Nov 2023
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Both sides may have fault however there is a fundamental difference between Israel and Hamas. Hamas is a relatively small terrorist group from a region (Gaza) that has been oppressed and had food, water, and electricity limited (even before the war). Meanwhile Israel has one of the largest militaries and occupies Gaza. The death toll and injuries are not even compatible nor the sheer scale of the war crimes committed by Israel.
Have you considered that if Gaza didn’t have terrorist groups they might a functioning society and government?
Have you considered that Gaza wouldn't have terrorist groups if the people had basic human rights?
Well, given that the reason Gaza is occupied is because of the terrorist groups, I think order of operations is somewhat disputed.
This is 70 years of tit for tat. My point is that both parties here are wrong.
There is no good or bad guy, just two bad guys.
The reason why Gaza is colonized is because Palestinians didn't want to split their land with a European settler colonialists. They resisted Israeli domination and lost.
I’m starting to think it’s all bad guys everywhere.
That's incorrect. The existence of the terrorist groups are the result of Resolution 181 and the ensuing war that established the modern day boundaries of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza.
The continued support for these terrorists groups has been bolstered in part by the heavy-handed tactics of Israel and the animosity between Israel and regional powers, but the original sin here was the British (and much of the western world) cowtowing to Zionists to create a theoretical two-state solution from scratch and overlaying it on an existing mixed-background area known as Palestine.
There are a lot of movie parts here, but the simple enmity between hardline Muslims and hardline Jews predates pretty much everyone currently alive on this planet.
Resolution 181 is a red herring.
There were already Arab vs. Zionist clashes before it, and they would have continued with or without a resolution that nobody was following. Only thing the British can be seen at fault for, is leaving without having enforced 181... which meant leaving Israel alone to fight a war against a coordinated attack from multiple Arab countries at once. Not precisely "cowtowing" to Israel.
Modern terrorist groups are the result of Israel going against its own Declaration of Independence where it promised to follow 181, and instead trying to get exclusive control of the whole territory... while Palestinians are getting pummeled, but still also refuse to consider a two-state solution, leaving them in an underdog position where all they can do is some terrorist attacks and wait to get destroyed.
It's good to see that reddit-level discourse has arrived.
You mean like the West Bank? 🙃
The West Bank is free from terrorist groups? 🤯
No, the IDF is still terrorising there.
Cute. I would encourage you to go attend a pride parade in Gaza or the West Bank and let me know how it goes.
Leopards and faces.
Gaza isn't colonized. Israel pulled out unilaterally in 2004 and evicted every Jewish settler, some at gunpoint.
It's been 80 years, sometimes you have to move on from your grandpa's battles. Do you think Germans should target Czechs living in Sudetenland? Or Poles in Silesia or Pomeranian or Eastern Prussia?
No, that's precisely what I've been arguing. Gaza has the 1967 borders and the same borders it had in 1949 after the armistice from the 1948 war was drawn.
Sorry, my comment was meant for someone else, but I've had really inconsistent internet while traveling.
No worries.
All of what is called "Israel" is colonized Palestinian land.
If they've been there more than 400 years then then you should consider them to have a claim on the land. Either you are a massive hypocrite or you advocate for indigenous peoples in the Americas to take back their land from colonist descendants.
Same with if they've been there 80 years.
So you're for a 1 state solution with equal rights and a government ran by the majority like south Africa?
Maybe if israeli hardliners didn't support the founding of Hamas and assassinate Rabin they could have reached a peaceful solution almost 20 years ago?