this post was submitted on 11 Jul 2023
334 points (97.7% liked)

Formula 1

5561 readers
1 users here now

c/formula1

Welcome to c/formula1.

Rules

Please keep discussions civil, respect other's opinions, and keep it friendly. Please read our rules before posting in our community.

Rules TLDR

Resources

These sites are a good place to start finding out about Formula 1, aside from right here of course!

Formula1.com - the official Formula 1 website.
Formula 1 Youtube - the official F1 youtube channel.
Liquipedia Overview - what's happening now and next in a nice dashboard.
F1Calendar.com - never miss a session again!
F1Countdown.com - for those of you who like countdowns!

Sister Communities

!Motorsports - for the love of racing outside of Formula 1.
[email protected] - because you love memes.
[email protected] - let's race!

founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Daniel Ricciardo will make a sensational return to front-line Formula 1 racing at the upcoming Hungarian Grand Prix, with the Australian set to replace Nyck de Vries at the AlphaTauri team for the rest of the season.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Wow, did not see this coming. I know he hasn't performed at Yuki's level yet, but given De Vries' previous achievements I would assume that he would eventually adapt. Feels like something must have gone sour internally between him and the team to get chucked out before the summer break.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I think you also have to keep in mind the position that de Vries and redbull is in:

  • Redbull is looking for a second verstappen-level driver. That's always been the case not only for redbull, but all tier 1 teams: Their aspirations are championships, not points or even podiums.
  • De Vries is a 28 year old rookie. That's usually the time that drivers retire or lean on their superior experience to make up for their loss in reaction speed and overall pace. The problem is that De Vries has no experience, while being older than Verstappen by close to three years. The fact that he got to race at all is a miracle: He would have to beat Tsunoda every week by quite a margin to become relevant for RedBull. If he doesn't become relevant for redbull, then why have him at alpha tauri?

Meanwhile they have a young driver in the form of tsunoda which exists in a limbo due to him having nothing to compare against: He could be the fastest driver on the planet in a trash car, or he could be underdelivering without anyone noticing due to the lack of comparison.
This is bad for two reasons:

  1. you don't know whether tsunoda is an option for redbull
  2. you have no idea how good alpha tauri is over all, which is doubly bad considering that they want to make major changes to how alpha tauri operates.

On the other hand, you have a perfectly good Ricciardo sitting on his hands that performed really well at silverstone. Realistically, you aren't going to lose anything from having Riccardo drive the rest of the season compared to having de Vries drive, but you have to potential upside of more context to the quality of tsunoda and the team, which you wouldn't get otherwise.

In general I'm more suprised that they ever gave De Vries a chance considering his age and the context to his big achievements:
In formula 2 his stiffest competitor was Nicholas Latifi (He won with 266 vs Latifi's 214 points) in what can be described as a dud year after the majority of now F1 mainstays had already graduated (he also needed 3 years to win F2, which is never a good sign).
If you have ever seen an formula E race, you will notice that it is quite a chaotic crash-fest with very weird rules and other nonsense. Just not crashing and not driving to quickly can get you really far by surviving the carbon-fiber mayhems and fuel-conservation issues.
To put it into perspective, here are the race records in the year that De Vries won formula E [1st, 9th, retired, retired, 1st, 16th, retired, 9th, retired, 13th, 18th, 2nd, 2nd, 22nd, 8th] or, in short if we ignore all DNFs we get a mean position of 9th!

In short, there's a reason why Mercedes never even tried to get him an F1 spot: He's not a bad driver, but being "not a bad driver" is insufficient for a top team like mercedes and redbull. There's little incentive to put him into any car, even less so nowadays considering his age.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

This is such a good post. Well done sir.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

@rullstolsroger @sboulema
lmao right? I was telling everyone don't trust the news. we've entered silly season, only to be linked to an official article 😮

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I didn't see De Vries being replaced so soon, but you've been living under a Ric if you didn't hear about the short leash Marko was giving him. His clock started ticking ages ago and he hasn't shown anything since then.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (2 children)

De Vries doesn't have any significant achievements when you actually look at the details of the F2 and FE championships he won. He's just not a good driver.

[–] [email protected] 24 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ah yes, he won a formula 2 and E championship without being a good driver.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It took him 3 years to win the F2 championship and during the year he won, Latifi was his biggest competition.

The year he won the FE championship, there were tons of issues with the structure of qualifying and the races, and the championship standings don't reflect the skill of the drivers well. His average finishing position that year was 11th out of 22 drivers and he was in the best team. The following year with a revised system that was much better, he finished 9th while he teammate won the championship.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wasn’t aware of his background… what made him standout to get the F1 seat? Surely the people making decisions knew all of this

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Last year during the Italian GP in Monza, de Vries did an FP session for Aston Martin. That same weekend Albon had a sudden case of appendicitis, taking him out of the GP for urgent medical treatment. Since de Vries was already present, Williams decided to put him in Albons seat. He finished the race 10th, after which multiple teams were considering to give him a seat for the 2023 season.

Edit: it was 9th position.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

People seem to forget half the grid took an engine penalty that weekend, and that track was particularly suited to the williams. Wasn't impressive in the least.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago

Why even give him a seat in the first place then? The guy got 9th place last year in a Williams.