this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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If the UK is convinced that you can't negotiate with dictators, how does the UK keep entering into arms sales agreements with Saudi Arabia? Do the contracts just appear out of thin air at BAE?
Sigh.
I am referencing to a dictator that is hellbent on invasion of other countries. We had plenty of relations with Russia before they decided to invade Ukraine and they were a dictatorship before. We have plenty of relationships with China now and they are a de facto dictatorship.
The Saudis used their British weapons to bomb Yemen and create one of the worst humanitarian catastrophes in recent memory. The UK sold weapons to Saudi before, during, and after the Saudi involvement in Yemen.
Perhaps Russia should have merely bombed Ukraine to the point of starvation. Then they'd be a good dictatorship that the UK would be happy to carry out business negotiations with.
Don't be ridiculous
Ukrainians are white
That's only acceptable when it's brown, asian, or south american people who's country you're destroying.
What’s going on in Yemen is incredibly complicated. I’m not condoning everything Saudi Arabia is doing there, far from it, but to call it out as a good vs evil war is frankly a simpleton view. Saudi is bad there. Everyone is bad there. It’s a huge mess. But I think it’s important to recognise that the Saudis aim is to restore order in a neighbourhood country, to prevent Iranian influence from growing and to suppress violent Islamic fundamentalism.
When I started reading this thread I really did not expect you to start defending Saudi Arabia to own the tankies ngl
They did say saudis bad tho, we should give the same nuance we expect from others. I don't suppose the commenter you're replying to supports Saudi arabia, it's just odd that the nuance they're seemingly willing to grant the saudis wont be given to Russia
"Restored order" is such a bullshit line
That's basically the same line Russia is using in Ukraine. Just with some added "denazification" buzz words.
No, Ukraine has a specific military campaign (the bombardment of Donbas) that he opposes along with the expansion of NATO. He has very clear demands, whatever you think of them.
That was initiated by pro-Russian insurgents and has led to lots of death on both sides. It's not like the opposing forces haven't been bombarding either. It's like if England started attacking the North during the US Civil War because they retaliated against the South attacking them, and of course they both speak English. I'm guessing you also believe in the Russian propaganda line about a genocide happening there, even though there's no proof? It was obviously just an excuse for Russia to get more control over Ukrainian territory after their Russian puppet President got ran out of the country.
Putin had denazification as a demand. That's not super clear at all. His clear demands are Ukraine staying out of NATO, which it was already up for agreeing to do, and surrendering territory, which is obviously the one it doesn't want to do, because no country would want to do that. That's the problem one but hopefully they come to something eventually.
It's bizarre to me that most hexbear users are less anti-war than some protestors and TV journalists that live in Russia itself who want their own country to leave. I agree with you guys on so many other stuff, but I can't get behind supporting the aggressor in a war, especially as they're shelling hospitals and apartment buildings.
The Donbas secessionists want to leave because the Maidan coup started pushing the country towards Ukrainian ethnonationalism, and eastern Ukraine is very Russian. Russia did back them, but Putin did not fabricate a popular opposition to the Maidan government.
Denazification is a pretty clear objective when the entity that you are seeking to denazify has battalions that are openly and explicitly Nazi as part of their doctrine. Purge those units, prosecute former members, ban Nazi hate crimes (like greasing bullets with pig fat) and ban Nazi symbols like Swastikas and Wolfsangles. It's really not difficult, the US military nearly passes that bar and even the German military does (though it has closeted Nazi cliques).
Ya but we're not in a war for our very lives. Hopefully they can get around to doing it after the war. Russia also had a Nazi problem with the Wagner group and a growing antisemitism problem but for some reason you can extend critical support to them but not Ukraine?
I was talking about Russia demanding it, not Ukraine doing it of their own volition. You are genuinely delusional if you think Ukraine is interested in such a thing. The Azov Battalion formed as a paramilitary circa 2014 to spearhead the aggression on Donbas, and since then became an official part of the military, still a couple years before the invasion, along with a few other explicitly Nazi groups. This, along with lionizing Bandera, pushing holodomor shit, and advancing ethnonationalist policy shows a clear trend. In terms of "state adoption of Nazi shit" Ukraine is easily the world leader and has been for some time, even over much worse and more destructive countries like the US.
Wagner is a PMC organization. There are Nazis in it, but it's not a doctrinally Nazi organization nor is it actually part of the Russian government like Azov is Ukraine. Russia likewise isn't pushing fascist hoaxes or ethnonationalist policies (however much we might both dislike Putin's revanchist rhetoric).
What’s going on in Ukraine is incredibly complicated. I’m not condoning everything Russia is doing there, far from it, but to call it out as a good vs evil war is frankly a simpleton view. Russia is bad there. Everyone is bad there. It’s a huge mess. But I think it’s important to recognise that the Russians' aim is to restore order in a neighbourhood country, to prevent American influence from growing and to suppress violent Neo-Nazi extremism.
Every lib's real values: white people invaded=the good guys
Brown/Black people invaded=it's complicated
Ahh that's why Russia used the Wagner group
I think sending a nazi-ish mercenarygroup into the meat grinder against an even more nazi-ish group so that they both wipe each other out (like what happened in Bahkmut) is good actually
Lol, Iran is more moderate than Saudi Arabia and bombing and starving populations is how you create radicals.
And you think somehow the Ukraine situation is cut and dry?
The NYT said that one is simple!
Ahh, well then, if they said so
When it's the US/West doing something there's all this room for 'nuance' but when it is Bad Country it's suddenly clear-cut good vs evil.
Incredible self-own
Holy shit man just realize you have no ideology or clue, stop talking and educate yourself on what the actual fuck is going on in the world. It would be a far more productive use of your time.
"Restoring order is when you bomb hospitals and exacerbate famines and the more people that die, the more order it is."
The Saudis are committing genocide in Yemen. No ifs, no buts. To claim they have a good reason to be out there doing it is genocide apologia.
the saudis make a desert and call it peace
yeah the saudis are really worried about Islamic fundamentalism
Yemen isn't a country because it isn't white enough for you
You're not very smart.
Ironic that you accuse others of reapting Kremlin talking points while vomiting the most generic pro Nato shit
They get their opinions straight from the white house and brussels.