this post was submitted on 25 Aug 2023
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Fucking Assholes, Apologists and Democracy Enemies.
Fuck that and them.
So burning the national flag is allowed?
Yes, I am proud to say that it is. Burning the danish flag is barely a provocation. The law is intended to stop individuals from provoking or threatening foreign nations, who may feel differently.
Interesting, thanks for sharing!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_desecration
It looks like most countries in mainland Europe either restrict flag desecration in general or desecration of their national flag.
Of the mainland Europe countries for which data exists, Norway, Sweden, Belgium, and Romania permit it, and Denmark prohibits desecration of international flags but permits desecration of the national flag.
It looks like the British tradition is to permit it -- the UK, Ireland, Australia, the US, and Canada permit it (though New Zealand does not).
It looks like most countries around the world prohibit desecration of their own flag but permit desecration of those of others.
The only other countries that take the Danish approach (permit desecration of own but not of others) are Uruguay and Japan.
It looks like Europe is actually one of the most-restrictive places in the world in terms of flag desecration. Few countries around the world restrict both desecration of one's own flag and the flag of other countries; almost all are in Europe, with only Israel and South Korea doing the same outside of Europe.
I am curious about the actual prosecution.
There’s a difference between burning books because you want to eliminate what they contain, and burning the holy text of the religion you suffered under. I think it’s bad for people who weren’t raised under oppression justified by Islam to burn the Quran, but the person who started all this was an immigrant from Iraq. To some people the Quran is a symbol of peace love and their deeply held beliefs. I’ve known wonderful and liberated women who wore hijab. But to others it’s a symbol of brutal oppression, like the Iranian atheist lesbian I once met. The fact is that this situation is far more morally complicated than many equivalents would be.
I don't think that the interesting question is really whether Islam is a good idea or a bad idea. I think that the interesting question is whether a form of condemnation of anything -- Islam, another religion, or anything else -- should be prohibited because some people don't like it being condemned.
Replace Islam with Judaism and it becomes less clear. Hatred towards a religious minority can get really fucking bad and should be stamped out. But also hatred towards your own oppressors is always justified.
Burning a religious text as a public demonstration isn’t a mild condemnation. It doesn’t fall within the realm of civil discourse.
So yeah I think it should be allowed unless Dutch people start actively targeting Muslims. At which point the right to such demonstrations may need reconsideration.
You dont need to burn a Quran to condem Islam.Also it is not a form of constructive criticism. What would you say if people flock to burn Torahs instead? Would you also tell the jewish organizations that would protest it to be less sensitive?
No, but you certainly can choose that as your form of expression.
That's fine too.
Please link to the verse of the Quran you refer to. I don't believe you.
Why is the existing law idiotic? What problems do you have with it?
https://www.learnreligions.com/disposal-of-quran-2004546
Not a link to a Quran quote, but it mentions the 3 main ways Islamic teachings state to dispose of old/broken Qurans.
1.burying 2.placing in flowing water 3.burning
Also a fun fact, these only pertain to The Quran in Arabic. Any other language is not considered to be literally Allah’s words and does not have to be discarded in those ways.
that is a very important differentiator here.
Well said and agreed