this post was submitted on 08 Jul 2023
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I'm not on your instance, so I don't get a ton of say, but I would just recommend that part of the Alt-Right's playbook is getting seen by as many eyes as possible. exploding-heads is trying to find ways to game the federation system and the algorithm to determine "hot" to platform their hate and pipeline people who don't recognize the dog whistles to their side. Whether you mind or don't mind seeing the content or can or cannot block the communities and users from over there is immaterial to exploding-heads's strategy. The point is to get seen that first time.
Further, whether you agree with the above, please consider this: telling vulnerable groups to do their own moderation on an individual level is an inherently privileged stance. Part of the alt-right's strategy is cyber-bullying. I'm going to focus on the cyber-bullying in this section of this discussion, just under the assumption that people disagree with my stance that exploding-heads is trying to promote a particular political agenda. Whether you agree or disagree on that point is immaterial. There is no denying that exploding-heads users engage in a pattern of cyber-bullying against minority groups. The aim in that case is to cause mental harm to those minority groups. If there's a pattern, why not address the root cause? That root cause being that exploding-heads is not moderated or administrated to the standards other instances in the federation expect, or even to the standards laid out in their sidebar rules.
Users of the fediverse join the instances they do with particular understandings of the rules and moderation styles that administrators provide to their users in their sidebar and any documents linked from there before signing up. Here are some selected rules from lemmy.one that exploding-heads users break regularly:
So, please. To the administrators of lemmy.one, consider these points when you make your decision. Let your own users' voices stand out more. But if you're a lemmy.one user, please take all of this into consideration as you make your recommendation
Exploding-heads was here years before any of you or the instances you're on. They were happily sitting there posting and discussing daily about the things that interest them. You might disagree with what they're talking about, but don't act like they're only doing it to spite you.
You redditors came into a space that existed for years before you ever even heard of it, act like you invented it, then act all outraged that there were already people here and their existence is a giant conspiracy theory meant to spite you personally.
You want to defederate from them? Go ahead. That's the right and power of each instance to choose who to associate with. But quit it with the narcissistic conspiracy theories. A lot of people were chased off of big tech before you, they didn't just stop existing -- they ended up somewhere and often that was the fediverse.
narcissistic conspiracy theories? tf you smokin bro?
I just said they're a hate ridden cesspool, no conspiracies, it's just an ugly mess that needs to be contained. No shit they never stopped existing, but they need to be slapped down everywhere they're seen. Let them keep fleeing and being chased away, they deserve no platform.
The narcissistic conspiracy theory is pretending that exploding-heads exists solely to mess with you personally, and that they just came to exist to mess with you and abuse the communities that only just came to exist about a month ago.
People who disagree with you exist. It's not some conspiracy theory meant to harm you personally.
yeah no kidding people who disagree exist. But it's not like seeing alt-right communities pop up and then try to spread tendrils of hate into every community that they can reach is new phenomenon. It was on Facebook- it was on Reddit- it was on Twitter. They progressively get kicked out from every one of them. There's no conspiracy, it's a repeatable trend. So let's start building a wall around the hate here as well.
One important thing to remember is that they were not actually kicked out of any of those platforms, the most extreme communities and people on some platforms were banned but generally the people are still there. And they come out of the woodwork if in any way you or the communities you run are visible in things that they hate.
But the lesson in this is that if those communities are easily findable for less extremist people who might be vulnerable to radicalization the communities will spread. While banning them to more hidden places causes a risk of further and further radicalization inside the group IMO the risk is less than the statistically significant rise of fascism, alt-right and extremist hate that at least Western countries are facing globally. The best way to combat radicalization is also not to let these radicalized communities exist alongside others as they were the same as it gives legitimacy to their viewpoints. And to be honest the best way to combat radicalization is to combat marginalization and suffering by educational measures, accessible mental health support, and robust social security nets that are high enough to actually live and not just survive. But that is not here or there when it comes to talking about internet platforms and their handling of extremist ideology or hate.
I do not personally have as much knowledge of the radicalized left as the radicalized right, different religions, and ethnicities. Partly because as a leftist who is an aid worker focusing on refugees, they don't tend to come at me in the same way as the constant right-wing extremist viewpoints that come out of windows and doors. But in my opinion same goes for them although I see less of a danger of them becoming statistically significant in the near future. But lets not give them that chance.
Because of my frequent runnings with radicalized rights and the unfortunate need to be also up to date in how radicalization works as refugees can be vulnerable to radicalization, not because of where they are from or what they believe in but because of how they are treated and the conditions they survive in, I really hope we can at least here in Fediverse create a place where the hate while not banned as it is an impossibility is walled well enough that I can feel safe writing this comment. Of course, in this instance I have no real vote as it is not my instance, just giving my few cents.
@empireOfLove @SJ_Zero cope
incredibly detailed and well researched argument from an account with zero lemmy activity except two comments defending exploding heads
nice job gatekeeping. Good to know that the internet never truely changes. You should be happy lemmy is growing into a serious service instead of some halfassed forgotten backwater that will eventually run out of users and die, instead you're just angry that our "corporate posting" is dirtying up your perfect little echo chambers.
I'm here for the long haul. That includes defederating from every hate instance I find, no matter how many those assholes start. Go find something better to do with your life than defend bigots and "ridicule" people for daring to have principles.
@empireOfLove and don't worry we were here before you and we will remain here long after you go :love:
Sure you will, bud, whatever makes you feel superior
They gave you a response after you typed a long-ass comment and this is what you give...?
ran out of arguments already? How sad, I was just having fun.
That's a lot of words to apologize for bigots.
I don't recall anyone apologizing.
🤣
I also had a dopey comment on mine too. I feel like the people migrating from Reddit are bringing all their negative energy.
All they do is try to one up each other.
To be fair... yes* they did post before the reddit exodus happened*
EDIT: Defederation needs to be due to the accused violationg a bight line rule of making a reasonable effort to prevent hate or intolerance and not by any culture war bs
I believe We have crossed that threshold here
However, that doesnt take away anyones right to defederate. If we dont want to federate with the group that encourages people to have PFPs that are
Transphobic
Of A boy (kalbin and hobbs?) Peeing on a trans flagWe dont have to,
no matter how much I would love to see them in the corner doing their own thing, their right to swing their arms ends when it hits a trans persons face. and being on the home page is militarally useful.
I wish I could argue with you on this point, but while I think no group should be beyond criticism and that includes "protected groups", I would tend to agree that some of the posts I've seen in the past are probably over a line and as such I can understand why people would just say "naw, let's just not federate that".
There are lots of good posts on the site even -- they cover a lot of stuff we should be talking about such as crony capitalism and corruption, but it doesn't take many really bad posts gone completely unmanaged and unchallenged to turn an instance into a superfund site, even for reasonably liberal people who want to allow talking about controversial topics.
I think that's a much better argument than just painting the site and everything and everyone on it with a broad brush. "There's specific stuff on that site that they find acceptable but we don't and there's been instances where the users there brought their unacceptable stuff into the other communities so we don't want to federate with them to maintain our own community standards" is difficult to argue with. It's a well-reasoned point that shows everyone is thinking for themselves which is all I ask.
And yeah, I saw OP was from beehaw afterward and realized that they were probably around a bit before all this.
Thanks for a sanity check, My post was too harsh, honestly this is what i think should be the case (edit: fix link)
Thats the tradity of it, sensable people with a diffrent beleaf set, pushed into a room where their vulrable to perswasion (propaganda) that X is gonna hurt your kids. (It needs evaluating, but most are going to start with a soundbyte and build a hyper-reality in whitch the soundbyte is correct)
Also to be frank, that was 5 minutes of browsing, and I couldve attached to any other group if i saw it first, I saw
Link the stuff your talkimg about, It sounds cool
You're reading a lot into what I'm saying stuff that I'm not saying
Nah it's just we don't like racists and fascists. It's not complicated.
Preach Brother
I appreciate this. ✊