this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
172 points (95.3% liked)
Asklemmy
43946 readers
634 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
There are physicist, respected ones, that believe the universe is deterministic. That we don’t have free will.
And psychologists that believe that feeling of consciousness is a result of the brain developing a self-supervising function for higher order thinking.
Essentially free will is just an illusion.
Of the 2 compatible explanations, I really like the many worlds theory over hidden variables. Many worlds explains this unexplainable randomness, the probabilistic nature of subatomic particle movements, by saying all possible movements happen…. The probabilities just indicate the likelihood that our reality is the one that movement X happens in.
And then you throw the block universe in, and it’s just all the more beautiful.
All possible combinations of atomic interactions all happen. Well “happen” is so linear time thinking, they all just exist.
What difference does it make?
Well, if true, it doesn’t make any difference. Because it always was and always will be. Nothing makes any difference.
But in another way, it’s kinda neat. I guess it’s simultaneously a not fun fact, and a fun fact.
Quantum mechanics involves true randomness, so it is already proven that the universe is not deterministic.
That doesn't mean we have free will, though. Random actions are no more free than predetermined ones.
I think the argument they make is that quantum randomness doesn't have any way of influencing our choices, the scales are too different. I disagree, I think quantum randomness is free will, and there's some sort of quantum amplifier, for lack of a better word, that bridges the gap between particle interactions and consciousness. But since there is no way to prove or disprove such a thing, since it is by definition indistinguishable from chance, it's basically naval gazing...
Some of the top scientists believe in a higher power god. NdGT makes the argument in one of his lectures that until that number is zero you have no right to look down on them for believing in a higher power.
Uh… ok.
I want saying you you but instead the royal you. That's where a lot of the determinism their cones from. God doesn't play dice with the universe and all that. Which is entirely taken out of context from Einstein and a lot of people wrongly think Einstein was religious but he wasn't. Still the quote remains and have kept scientists religious for decades.
I like Sabine Hossenfelders way of explaining things, she disregards god altogether. It’s not necessary for these explanations.
I saw some other scientists basically throwing a hissy fit about determinism, and how they wouldn’t get credit for being so smart and making the discoveries and stuff if determinism was true. Like obviously I’m so smart, I’m making hypotheses so I’ve got free will.
It was utterly embarrassing, I was looking for a legit counter view to see what the other side said. And the first two videos I found were PhDs throwing tantrums on podcasts.
But to those that believe in a god generally, sure, with our current knowledge anything is a possibility… just some theories have more standing than others… but some also are nicer to believe in, and just make sense for a being to want to believe.