Men's Liberation
This community is first and foremost a feminist community for men and masc people, but it is also a place to talk about men’s issues with a particular focus on intersectionality.
Rules
Everybody is welcome, but this is primarily a space for men and masc people
Non-masculine perspectives are incredibly important in making sure that the lived experiences of others are present in discussions on masculinity, but please remember that this is a space to discuss issues pertaining to men and masc individuals. Be kind, open-minded, and take care that you aren't talking over men expressing their own lived experiences.
Be productive
Be proactive in forming a productive discussion. Constructive criticism of our community is fine, but if you mainly criticize feminism or other people's efforts to solve gender issues, your post/comment will be removed.
Keep the following guidelines in mind when posting:
- Build upon the OP
- Discuss concepts rather than semantics
- No low effort comments
- No personal attacks
Assume good faith
Do not call other submitters' personal experiences into question.
No bigotry
Slurs, hate speech, and negative stereotyping towards marginalized groups will not be tolerated.
No brigading
Do not participate if you have been linked to this discussion from elsewhere. Similarly, links to elsewhere on the threadiverse must promote constructive discussion of men’s issues.
Recommended Reading
- The Will To Change: Men, Masculinity, And Love by bell hooks
- Politics of Masculinities: Men in Movements by Michael Messner
Related Communities
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My alcoholic mother slapped me when I was having a mental health crisis and told me to "become a man".
That might still be the most emotionally hurtful moment I've ever experienced, though there's some very strong competition.
Now, my father was an awful man too, but I honestly don't feel it was patriarchy that guided her hand.
Certainly had to do a lot of psychic self-mutilation, though.
This.
Whilst traditional gender normes are hurting everyone ("be a man", "smile more") I really don't feel that "patriarchy" and it's evident undertone of finger pointing are the main cause.
I'd go even further and say that what people call "patriarchy" is really more of an emergent phenomenon coming from those underlying gender normes.
bell hooks explicitly address the violence women inflict on their sons:
Hoenstly, The Will to Change addresses every popular argument about masculinity I've seen, and defines and explains the role of patriarchy. Fantastic book. 100/100. Read it. I should've read it years ago.
Seems like it requires mental gymnastics to trace that back to patriarchy rather than human behaviour in a more general sense.
How so? Do you think that women are generally violent towards their children? Isn't that in direct opposition to how women are often portrayed?
I don't believe the behaviour itself stems from patriarchy, I think it is just human behaviour. That's the bit that feels kind of convoluted. But I understand that to the true believer, this is a matter of faith, so I'm not here to change anybody's mind.
This is not a matter of faith lol. I am no zealot.
I'm curious as to how you understand human nature, though.