this post was submitted on 10 Jan 2025
415 points (89.5% liked)

Ye Power Trippin' Bastards

566 readers
1075 users here now

This is a community in the spirit of "Am I The Asshole" where people can post their own bans from lemmy or reddit or whatever and get some feedback from others whether the ban was justified or not.

Sometimes one just wants to be able to challenge the arguments some mod made and this could be the place for that.

Rules

Expect to receive feedback about your posts, they might even be negative.

Make sure you follow this instance's code of conduct. In other words we won't allow bellyaching about being sanctioned for hate speech or bigotry.


Some acronyms you might see.


Relevant comms

founded 5 months ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Zionism is a settler colonialism project that was able to really start with the support of British Imperialism. Zionism as a political movement started with Theodore Herzl in the 1880s as a 'modern' way to 'solve' the 'Jewish Question' of Europe. Western Nations supported this instead of instituting legal protections and refuge for Jewish people fleeing persecution.

Herzl himself explicitly considered Zionism a Settler Colonialist project, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough Palestinian people need to be 'Transferred' to have a demographic majority that is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.

Quote

Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

Peace Process and Solution

Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution

Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.

Oslo was used as a land grab while continuing to deny Palestinians human rights

(Oslo Accord Sources: MEE, NYT, Haaretz, AJ).

How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution

‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe

One State Solution, Foreign Affairs

Historian Works on the History

The existence of Hamas, and any armed resistance movement, is directly due to the decades of violence experienced daily under the permanent occupation, the Apartheid State, of Israel. It's impossible to understand their existence if you don't understand the lived experience and material conditions they are forced to live under. There is no such thing as a perfect victim when it comes to anti-Colonialist resistance, not for the Vietcong, the IRA, or the ANC either. Can you condemn the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the same way as the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto?

In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I love that you posted this, but you're wasting your time feeding a known troll.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 17 hours ago

It is important to push back against Zionist trolls, not for the sake of the troll, but for the audience in the conversation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

It's honestly more for the many more who are just browsing. Although there have been a few that genuinely weren't aware and changed their mind. But yeah, there are also plenty who are simply trolls and completely dehumanize Palestinians if not all Arabs and Muslims. I've got that ~~troll~~ tagged as a Zionist now

[–] [email protected] -4 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Whatever dude, Lemmy is way too far left for me to be arguing at this point. I don't approve of genocide on either side and I'm leaving it at that. I'm not gonna win or even remotely get anywhere so I'll stop wasting everyone's time. It's not productive which is the entire point of having an argument.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (1 children)

Well you're arguing off of misinformation. I provided sources for you to learn about the conflict if you are actually interested. I don't care to argue. You have many resources available and I have even more, such as documentaries. But the books I referenced have the best depth of knowledge about the conflict

[–] [email protected] 2 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

I haven't read the sources you posted yet, I've been arguing entirely with the content of your messages as reading the sources in the middle of an argument is too time consuming, however I will go read them just to see if it changes my world view. That is the point of all this. Anyway, cheers (I am not trolling for what it's worth, if you'd rather label me an idiot then feel free to do so)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago

No, I think it's great that you're looking into the sources, that's something the trolls don't do. There's been decades of propaganda to manufacture consent for Israel's occupation, apartheid, and now genocide. A One-State Solution with equal rights is the way forward. Cheers