this post was submitted on 30 Oct 2024
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Reading this thread is painful…
You say you know exactly how it works. Are you aware that the only possibilities for president are the Dem or Rep nominee? Your comments make it seem like you don’t know that.
It's because Objection here is a full on ml cult member. They use moronic statements like calling people NSA spies, everyone they don't like is a lib, they're trans of course so that's their defense when cornered, Ukraine started the war, etc etc. Their comment history is a who's who of all the classic cliches.
It's not worth your time talking to them. They're just trolling for 20 comment deep arguments.
Yes, I'm aware that those are the only realistic winners of this election. I'm not aware of anything I might have said that would imply I think otherwise.
I love that your entire reasoning is "I know I'm wrong, and i know everyone I've ever talked to has told me I'm wrong... but I'm still going to do it anyways".
Smart choice, kid.
Then I have to think you believe Trump and Harris would be equally bad and therefore don’t feel compelled to vote strategically against either.
Do I have that right?
No. They are not equally bad, but neither is an acceptable choice.
You’re pretty sanguine about getting the worse of the two. I find that strange.
I don't subscribe to the ideology of lesser-evilism.
Explain the logic of “I’m good with the greater evil, actually”.
Sure. Ethically speaking, anyone who's not an act utilitarian will accept the "greater evil" in some circumstances, and if you don't, it leads to some absurd conclusions, like chopping up a healthy person to get organ transplants to save five. Another example would be, "If you don't kill someone for me, I'll kill two people." I can't prevent every bad thing from happening, but I can control my own actions and choose not to be a party to bad things.
Got it. Voting, in your mind, is akin to two different examples of murder.
It sounds to me like you’d opt out of giving someone the Heimlich maneuver so as not to bruise their abdomen, letting them choke to death.
You can pretend to opt out but not voting or voting third is a choice not to help prevent the worse outcome. You’ve participated in bringing that to fruition.
I thought you were asking for why one would be accept a greater evil, generally speaking, so I demonstrated why lesser evilism is not automatically the correct position.
Nope, that is blatantly false. Not voting for either major candidate, so by definition I haven't participated in getting either of them elected.
Sure.
And a doctor who refuses to participate in the harm of removing a limb letting the person die from gangrene is “not participating” and not responsible for the outcome.
Whether he's responsible is one thing, but claiming that the doctor participated in giving him gangrene would be completely absurd.
No. You’ve incorrectly identified what I implied the doctor has participated in. You’d like for me to have said the doc somehow gave the person gangrene but I didn’t and did not imply that.
The doctor did however participate in letting a person die. He could have done otherwise but chose not to.
You see, removing a limb is a harm and he just can’t bring himself to do it. He will sleep soundly knowing he did no harm.
You said that I participated in "Bringing that to fruition" not in "letting that happen."
"Participating in letting something happen" is a very odd turn of phrase. The definition of participate (per google) is, "take part in an action or endeavour." If what you're doing is not taking part in an action, then you aren't participating, by definition.
If someone on the other side of the world starves to death, are you a participant in that?
We’re comparing voting, which I can do, to helping someone I don’t know exists on the other side of the world?
Thanks for the thread bud. Plenty here for people to see your thought process. It sucks by the way.
There's information about world hunger available on the web, I don't see how choosing not to be informed about it absolves you of responsibility.
For more smug ethics lessons. Press 1 or say: “Bore me to death.”
You know that there will still be an election, right? Not voting simply says you’re fine with either candidate winning. Which clearly shows your entitlement as you must not have much to worry about. It’s this, or you don’t even live in the states.
So pick one:
This response says you subscribe to the ideology of worse-evilism for everybody else.
As a member of everybody else, THAAAAAANKS.
Nope, not supporting the worse evil either.
Lesser-evilism freqently produces worse results than more coherent strategies and ethical systems.
Is this your first presidential election?
Have you voted in any other elections before?
Do you even know there are other elections?
Are you a brick wall, unable to process what other people are telling you?
Are you even American?
Do you understand that real life is not a fantasy?
Answer me these questions six, and a wish .ml shall gift.
So I’ll use a random what-if/analogy since you seem to love them SO much!
Imagine a magic elf came down from magic elf land, and made you chose between having an acute health condition and cancer. Do you mean to say that you are totally fine with allowing other people to decide for you- full-well knowing that half of the people deciding are huge fans of cancer and not at all fans of you?
Because this is your logic mirrored right back back at you.
Or would you actually give a shit in this case because it will be YOU that’s affected by the outcome.
Either way-
You’re getting one regardless. Not choosing doesn’t make the election not happen. But you know this. Don’t you?
The ironic part is you just might be better off with the cancer. An acute problem could be anything, from broken bones or an infection to a heart attack or acute radiation poisoning. At least with cancer you know what you're going to get and should have time to seek treatment.
The common cold is also an acute condition. So maybe if you try reeeeeeaaaaally hard, you’ll actually get the point I’m making here and why I used that as an example.
Best of luck!
Could have said something specific then, rather than "literally anything acute". As it is, I don't know why you'd assume your magical elf that's known to cause cancer could also be so benign as to only give people a cold.