105
this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
105 points (92.7% liked)
MeanwhileOnGrad
1346 readers
4 users here now
"Oh, this is calamity! Calamity! Oh no, he's on the floor!"
Welcome to MoG!
Meanwhile On Grad
Documenting hate speech, conspiracy theories, apologia/revisionism, and general tankie behaviour across the fediverse. Memes are welcome!
What is a Tankie?
Alternatively, a detailed blog post about Tankies.
(caution of biased source)
Basic Rules:
Sh.itjust.works Instance rules apply! If you are from other instances, please be mindful of the rules. — Basically, don't be a dick.
Hate-Speech — You should be familiar with this one already; practically all instances have the same rules on hate speech.
Apologia — (Using the Modern terminology for Apologia) No Defending, Denying, Justifying, Bolstering, or Differentiating authoritarian acts or endeavours, whether be a Pro-CCP viewpoint, Stalinism, Islamic Terrorism or any variation of Tankie Ideology.
Revisionism — No downplaying or denying atrocities past and present. Calling Tankies shills, foreign/federal agents, or bots also falls under this rule. Extremists exist. They are real. Do not call them shills or fake users as it handwaves their extremism.
Tankies can explain their views but may be criticised or attacked for them. Any slight infraction on the rules above will immediately earn a warning and possibly a ban.
Off-topic Discussion — Do not discuss unrelated topics to the point of derailing the thread. Stay focused on the direct content of the post as opposed to arguing.
You'll be warned if you're violating the instance and community rules. Continuing poor behaviour after being warned will result in a ban or removal of your comments. Bans typically only last 24 hours, but each subsequent infraction will double the amount. Depending on the content, the ban time may be increased. You may request an unban at any time.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'll wait for you to tell me which of the sanctions you're referencing prevent the US from conducting business or financial transactions with major trade partners and that have the weight of the UN Security Council behind them, such as the ones for Iran, China, and Russia, and which have the adherence of the UN and its member states.
A council who's mission is to promote world peace through unity should be able to pass sanctions against member states that are egregiously culpable for war crimes against civilian populations and genocide. Yet here we are still waiting
Still waiting for your opinion on the cartoon you decided wasn't worthy of inclusion. I'd settle for your opinion on Islam as a whole, since you seem keen on highlighting islamic terrorism but loath to mention christian, jewish, and secular terrorism.
Oh, so now you're changing what kind of theoretical sanctions you want. That's convenient because there are none, and likely won't ever be any. Good job, you've won, you just needed to change your point -- Twice. Maybe you should threaten me with being off-topic again? It'll save you from this embarrassment.
Embarrassment, such as believing the UN stands for peace. The UN has never stood for peace. It has stood for legal means of warfare and applying a coat of paint on bloodshed, so it's official bloodshed instead of your standard bloodshed. Got an issue with this? I do too, but it's the best the world has and will most likely be the best we will ever have: flimsy laws and stern letters.
It can be fixed, though. All it requires is for Hamas to declare itself government and surrender. And for the PLO and Hamas (and the many different militant factions) to come to conclusions if Gaza and the West Bank are the same Palestine. Hamas won't do this, though, because then they'll be like the Taliban. It turns out terrorist tactics and forces don't function when there are annoying rules you must follow and an appearance of lawfulness you need to keep, as per the UN. Governing is hard. Turns out using civilian infrastructure and targeting civilians is a war crime (I need to mention that this is also a jab at Israel, because I know for certain that you try to use this comment as a gotcha, lol)
I don't care about it. Nothing justifies violence. Why do you struggle to comprehend this?
Oh god forbid I highlight Islamic Terrorism about a conflict between Israel and Islamic Terrorists, deary me. You want me to mention the Christian Terrorists, too? What, all one of them? He threw a stone into a window when he was drunk.
This is a lot of waffle as you try steering yourself away from admitting you were insinuating France deserves violence. If I was you, I'd just drop the whole thing and hope people forget this blunder--Works for me.
I've not changed anything, except put a finer point on what i've been saying from the outset - that Isreal, the US, and the other genocide collaborators should face justice for the terror and suffering they've caused in Palestine. Whatever sanctions already in place have not changed Israel's ability or motivation to continue their genocide, so more and stronger punitive action is needed. One "official" route - a minimum standard of justice - would be UN sanctions supported and adhered to by western UN member states. The UN's refusal/reluctance to do so is kind of the broader analytical point that I don't feel you're ready to discuss.
Finally a point of agreement. The UN and NATO were both created to legitimize the violence and statecraft of western-allied nations against a shared 'enemy'. Perhaps i've been too tongue-in-cheek for you - the sanctions and punitive actions taken by the western world through the UN have always been against the US's preferred enemies, and have always selectively ignored actions taken by the US and others, even when the evidence of war crimes and genocide are overwhelming. And yet it would be foolish to deny that the UN is the only collective body with any real weight, and there are certainly none that stand meaningfully opposed to western hegemony.
It's important context for someone on the left, because to those who stand opposed to western crimes then have no "official" path to justice. You can take from that whatever conclusion you like.
Look at how selective you're being with your condemnation.
Clearly not "nothing", if you stand in support of Israel's war and occupation of Gaza. There are some forms of violence that you clearly recognize as legitimate. I don't struggle to understand what you've said, I struggle only to show you the contradiction in your omissions.
A true "neutral" liberal would say that it is a war between jewish terrorists and islamic terrorists. I don't even care that your sympathies lie on one side of the conflict or the other, but I do take issue with your cowardice to acknowledge it. There are no good guys in this conflict, and there's a choice you've made here that is consistent with all of your other comments on the topic that shares a striking resemblance with the sentiment expressed in the cartoon you refuse to acknowledge.
As the moderator of a community nominally dedicated to opposing hate speech, you sure do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to Muslims.
Damn, OP is a psycho. Thanks for fighting the good fight; you’re a far more patient person than I.
These “anti-tankie” folks seem completely incapable of nuance. Either you support everything the west does, or you must be a tankie who doesn’t believe in Tiananmen Square. There’s no third option it seems.
How is defending calls to massacre innocents 'fighting the good fight'
What's wrong with you? Clearly you haven't spent much time in the community. Many users are very much opposed to Israel's actions -- I know I am.
I'm not defending the massacre of innocents any more than you are.
Good.
The dominant ideological position of any system never requires a rational, coherent, or consistent analysis. All they need is a post-hoc rationalization of their ideology by nature of their dominance at the top, and a rejection of all violence outside their hegemony.
It's the rhetorical equivalent of scoring just enough points to win and then taking the ball home with you. They deny everyone else the means of establishing a competing worldview by prohibiting the exact same violence they used to establish themselves as the dominant system.
None of these liberals really see the inconsistencies or contradictions of the ideology they're defending, assuming they try to see them at all. Most of them simply resign themselves to an unjust world because 'that's just the way it is'. There's no other way to break through to them other than slowly and patiently challenging them, and even then, most will never really see it. I don't know if goat will ever see reason but maybe a few in his community will, assuming he doesn't ban me for the constant pestering.
We'll see.