this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
372 points (77.0% liked)
Memes
45657 readers
1625 users here now
Rules:
- Be civil and nice.
- Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Marx and Engels were called "authoritarian" so frequently by their contemporaries that Engels wrote On Authority. What's considered "authoritarian" is a moving target, an arbitrary line in the sand just for people who succeed in revolution, or at least in throwing off western Imperialist powers.
If your argument is that Marxism isn't Leftist then that's hilarious
my argument isn't that marx isn't left (especially since I've read his later works), nor that auth-left isn't left... just that I'm an anti authotitarian leftist
Gotcha, you're just anti-Marxist then. Can't say I agree with that, but that's less nonsensical than saying Marx isn't left.
I don't belive marx to be really auth, since he was striving for a stateless society, I just disagree with him on how we get there
so I'm not exactly an anti marxist, but neither a marxist
What Marx calls the "State" and what Anarchists call the "State" are different concepts, ergo what Marx calls "Stateless" would still have hierarchy, and what Anarchists call "Stateless" would still have implementations of class oppression. Marxists and Anarchists do not want the "same thing."
If we take your statement that your only major aggreement with Marx is a "Stateless" society, but you're working off the Anarchist definition of the State, then you are necessarily anti-Marxist. I'd rather you say that openly than try to twist Marxism despite being an Anarchist, so I hope it's just a misunderstanding on your part.
well, then I'm an "anti-marxist" I wouldn't really like to put it that way tho, since I agree with him on a lot of things
also sry for twisting things, it's been a long time since I read marx
That's fine, I would just focus more on your "pro-Anarchist" identity than your "anti-'authoritarian'" side. You can be whatever you want to be, your political views are your own.
It wasn't a moral judgement! Just wanted to clear up a clear misconception. I obviously recommend reading more Marx. What do you agree with about Marx?
> What do you agree with about Marx?
just off my head:
The LTV is based on Materialism, so I'd read up more on that. Same with Surplus Value.
Freedom is one that is a bit different from Anarchists. Marxists believe that the individual is free when the community is free, Anarchists tend to believe the Community is free when the individual is free.
As for "communally owned," there's an important nuance. Marxists are in favor of public ownership and central planning, Anarchists are in favor of communal ownership and mutual aid. Different systems entirely.
Democracy is a bit vague. All Marxists are democratic, the structure of the democracy is different, and not direct democracy like most Anarchist systems.
thx for refreshing my memory, I should totally read it again, it's been almost 20 years now
Let me know if you want any recommendations!
thought I'll read the Kapital again, since I appear to have forgotten pretty much anything from it
Capital is a good choice, but you'll get more bang for your time with Socialism: Utopian and Scientific IMO.
And wage labor and capital and value price and profit if they want to touch more on the economics.
Certainly good, but I'd say Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism and The State and Revolution are more eye-opening for an anti-AES Anarchist to read.