this post was submitted on 28 Sep 2024
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I have also been taught that by the mirror, and I'm pretty sure I've already let way too much go as it is.
I'm trying, but without external validation, all that remains is the status quo.
Go to a gay bar. Not even joking. Gay men are the single best thing for any man's confidence. And sense of male self-worth.
You don't have to be gay to uplift and compliment the other men you interact with. That's just a side effect of toxic masculinity. Men can compliment each other, uplift each other, and say "Hey man, you're looking good today. You make that shirt look good!" without being gay. Not that I disagree with anything you said, just you're comment got me thinking about the weird effects of the patriarchy on men supporting other men.
I agree, we shouldn't have to go to a gay bar.
And just to be clear, it's not just a question of men supporting men. Women don't complement men either. No one does...except gay men.
Fair point, but I wouldn't blame women for not complimenting men. That's still toxic men that make doing so dangerous for them.
Come on man, take a step back and listen to yourself. Women can do no wrong, and even if they do, it's men's fault? I know this is a common narrative in society, but just think about it for a minute. It's crazy, it makes no sense.
Not what I said at all.
What's the difference?
ok to be clear here, i think the point was that gay men compliment men like women compliment each other.
Should men compliment eachother in a gayer fashion? Maybe. Does this change anything here? Probably not.
Patriarchy didn't teach men that they're disgusting, wtf
That's like the opposite of the patriarchy
This is the shit feminists do that piss me off. Literally anything bad? Patriarchy. Literally anything good? Feminism. Even if it makes no goddamn sense.
Bullshit. That's one tiny aspect of it - men unable to support other men. The vast majority of the problem of men seeing themselves as disgusting is feminsm. "All men are potential rapists" is a disgusting and extremely prevalent ideology. All men are trash, all men are pigs, you see women say these things all the time and it's just accepted.
I'm sure that even if I found literally a thousand examples you'd continue to claim "well that's not REAL feminism".
Cute, you've got this idea in your head of who I am. Could I possibly be a reasonable person with a valid point? No. I must be an Andrew Tate - huffing knuckle-dragging woman-beating mongoloid. That's the only type of person who could ever possibly have an issue with feminism.
Uh huh
The hilarity of you taking issue with others ascribing positions to you based on a cursory interaction when that's all you've done in this entire thread for both posters and feminism as a whole is quite rich.
Wait lol you think this is my first interaction with feminism?
Are you implying that you've meaningfully examined feminist theory vs cursorily argued about it on the Internet? Considering your primary problem seems to be the basic concept of what patriarchy is I kind of doubt it.
Yes, I've read feminist theory, but it's only tangentially relevant to reality. What matters is what the great bulk of non-academic feminists say and do.
I consider the patriarchy to be the social power structure that enforces gender norms. What exactly do you consider the patriarchy to be?
Is there literally anything I could do to convince you to re evaluate your position? Because I bet no, and I really don't have the time or energy to beat my head against a wall right now.
? It's a definition. It's almost the exact definition on Wikipedia.
Ya know, like male gender norms being enforced through a structural functionalist approach and the discrediting of supposedly feminine traits v such as beauty.
If you're operating under a fundamental different definition of patriarchy than what everyone else means when you're talking about it, obviously there won't be agreements.
So, no.
Yes, I'm obviously the obstinate one here with little value for other perspectives right?
It's a question of effort. If it's a pointless conversation, why put in the effort. You aren't coming at it with an open mind.