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this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2024
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Palestine
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@PanArab
Maybe Hamas shouldn't have massacred Israelis.
Maybe it should release the remaining hostages and surrender.
That would end the war they started.
Netanyahu has publicly said the release of the hostages wouldn't stop the war.
@Maggoty
Did you miss the part about surrendering? Surrendering stops the war.
No it doesn't because Netanyahu isn't going to leave. He's said all of this publicly. He wants to keep troops in Gaza. So someone is going to take a shot at them and he's going to over react again. Occupation is still war.
These are the same guys that maintained a blockade, prevented the winner of an election from taking office, and routinely bombed civil infrastructure. All acts of war. And they're telling you they don't consider this to be over until they say it's over. Ask the American Indians how surrendering goes. Ask the Irish. There's a reason other historically oppressed groups, including Jews abroad, are standing with Palestine even after October 7th.
@Maggoty
Hamas rejects the existence of Israel, refusing even to call it by its name, instead slurring it as the "Zionist state", just like its Iranian backers do. It manifests this rejection through terrorism.
Fuck Bibi, but anyone is his seat is going to react to the 10/7 massacre with war. This is what Hamas wanted. They don't get to complain about getting what they wanted.
They killed their own people with this provocation.
Zionism is literally the name of the ideology. That's as much of a slur as calling an American a Capitalist.
And no. This isn't just a war. This isn't simply a reaction. Nothing justifies what they're doing. The common person in Palestine didn't ask for anything except for Israel to take its boot off their neck.
@Maggoty
No, that's a lie. Iran and its "Axis of Resistance" reject the existence of Israel, so they refuse to use its name, instead calling it the "Zionist state" as a slur.
Do not lie to me, and do not make excuses for antisemitism.
You can look it up, it's really not any different than calling the US "the capitalist state". In the first few years Israel officially adopted Zionism. Trying to make it sound like a slur against them is part of decades of propaganda to make Israel look like the victim while it pursues a project of colonialism no different than the British Empire at its worst.
@Maggoty
This is a lie.
Iran and its pawns refuse to call Israel "Israel", using "Zionist state" as a slur. It would be like the USSR saying America doesn't exist and only calling it the "capitalist state".
The Palestinian claim to the area is rooted in their own colonialism; learn some history.
They've been there for thousands of years. Nobody gives a shit what happened thousands of years ago.
And the "doesn't exist" thing makes no sense. Why would you shoot at something that doesn't exist? Of course they know Israel exists. They don't recognize it's legitimacy.
Finally, repeating something doesn't make it any more true. In fact repeating things that aren't true is a propaganda technique to stick it in people's heads.
@Maggoty
Yeah, and the Jews were there before that. Welcome to history, where the people owning a land can change.
Fact is, Israel was formed on top of land owned by the Ottoman Empire, not the Palestinians. Britain won it as spoils of war, just like the Palestinians did long ago. Then the Palestinians went to war and lost again. It's just not their land anymore.
If war is a legitimate way to gain land, then Israel legitimately exists and it legitimately owns Palestine.
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Again, nobody cares where the jews were when the Roman Empire existed. In that logic we need to roll back the entirety of the last several hundred years. That's patently ridiculous.
It's also ridiculous to say Britain won it so now Isreal gets to exist, when the Irgun drove the British out. It's doubly ridiculous because all of the other colonial projects from the early 1900's have been devolved to the indigenous people. And no, you're not indigenous to an area after living abroad for 2000 years. What makes this slice of the Ottoman empire special?
@Maggoty
@TruthSandwich is a well-known troll. It proved so obnoxious that no other Mastodon instance would put up with it. It had to start its own instance. The fact that it could do that implies financial (and probably political) backing. I've blocked that domain, so I can't see what you're responding to.
#Palestine
#Israel
#genocide
#hasbara
#zionism
#CrimesAgainstHumanity
Yeah I picked that up a while ago, I like to draw their logic out so people can see how absurd it is. Although not the whole, own instance thing. Thank you though.
@DropBear @Maggoty
"Anyone who calls me out for my antisemitism is a troll." - some Australian antisemite
@Maggoty
Just like nobody cares that the Palestinians controlled this territory before they lost it. All that matters is who has it now.
The UN decided to partition Mandatory Palestine, with part of it forming Israel and the other forming an independent Palestine. However, the Palestinians rejected this, went to war, and lost.
When you go to war and lose, it's not your land anymore.
It's also not the 1700s anymore. We don't do the whole wars of conquering land anymore. Israel does not get a pass on that.
@Maggoty
Are you confused? WWII was in the 1900's, not the 1700's.
And, to remind you, the UN partitioned Mandatory Palestine. Israel accepted this, the Palestinians went to war and lost. Sucks to be them.
Remind me again, how well did that work out for Germany and Russia? They held on to all that land? No? Oh but what about World War 1? Oh that all devolved to local rule or was handled after World War 2? Your best argument here is Poland's radical shift in territory but it was a nebulous concept at best for several hundred years and the territory they shifted onto was literally right next to them, not across an ocean with an entirely different culture already there. So maybe not the comparison you want to make unless you like the idea of inviting Egypt, Syria, and Iran to part out Israel.
@Maggoty
You're Gish galloping.
The actual issue is whether, contrary to Iran's slur, Israel is a legitimate nation with a legal right to exist. It is and does, as it was created by the highest international authority.
Cherry-picking historical partitions (thus avoiding India/Pakistan) is a dishonest change of topic.
Gish galloping? What in there was a lie? Words have meaning sir. We live in a society.
And if you want to bring in the British then fine, they did that without consulting anyone, it was not the preferred solution by anyone except extremists and it resulted in wars and ethnic cleansing. Oh hey look it's just like Palestine! There's a pattern here...
And clearly the people Israel is currently genociding do not care what the Un said about Israel 70 years ago. They aren't going to see an apartheid state oppressing them as legitimate. Nor should they. After all Germany was a country too and I'm pretty sure the German Jews didn't consider Hitler taking power in a river of blood as legitimate either. Legitimacy is something you can lose, especially if it was tenuous in the first place. Like say, if someone was to keep fighting you for 70 years over it.
@Maggoty
Gish galloping is more than just lying, it's generating falsehoods faster than they can be refuted, which entails responding to refutations by changing the subject. Like you just did. Again.
New rule: Don't argue with antisemites. Just block them.
I ask again which part was a lie?
@Maggoty
Iran denies the legitimacy of Israel. They say it doesn't have any right to exist and their goal is to make it cease to exist, through genocide.
That is why, once again, refusing to call Israel "Israel" and instead calling it the "Zionist state" is a slur and a genocidal threat.
Repeatedly ignoring irrefutable facts is bullshit. Stop bullshitting.
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Good thing your statements are refutable.
@Maggoty
BS. If they were, you would have been able to.
I would call the fact that it's literally the name of their ideology a pretty good refutation to your idea that it's some kind of slur.
@Maggoty
The problem with arguments based on pretending to be stupid is that people are likely to believe you're really that stupid and just write you off.
Go back to my example of "capitalist state" and you'll see that your stupid nonsense argument was pre-refuted.
pre-refuted? lmao.