this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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personally, i believe that attempts to quantify any complex system into discrete metrics is likely to have blind spots and misunderstand the system as a whole. i think that if you are concerned about the environmental impacts of agriculture, the correct approach is to evaluate each operation on its own and try to optimize it for inputs and outputs.
You can probably see how actual statistics are useful for policy or public discussion, though, right?
We aren't going to fix any big picture problem by leaving it up to the businesses pedaling whichever product. Like, you wouldn't apply that to an oil well, would you?
I can see how politicians and bureaucrats would prefer statistics, but I don't believe that's a good source for public policy myself, no.
And priests prefer faith. How do you think it should work?
If you're against science as a concept maybe I shouldn't even bother.
I'm not against science. this paper is scientific malpractice.
I don't particularly have a comment on this specific piece of research (which is why I asked for a good alternative). What does science mean to you exactly?
this is literally the final for a 400-level philosophy course. i'm not going to be writing a 5-page essay here. i can characterize my own beliefs as an approximation of other's though. i tend toward karl popper and other critical rationalists.
i think this question is too much to ask outside of a purely academic environment, and honestly don't want to deal with it here. is there another question you think you could ask that would actually be answerable in a succinct way and tell you what you want to know about my perspective?
It is a big question. For myself, somewhere in those five pages, it has to relate to things that are measurable. If you're against measurement, you're against science.
oh, of course, yes. testability. disprovability. this is the crux of critical rationalist critiques.
Cool. I never took a 400-level philosophy course. A quick look on Wikipedia suggests it's not against measurement or theory, just certainty. That's fine, I don't believe in certainty. Maybe a black swan comes along, but until then, it's not bad to say swans are white.
If you're not a postmodernist or something I'm not sure why, rationally, you would object to measuring the land footprint of animal husbandry as a concept.
measure it all you want. what is your hypothesis?
Animal husbandry uses comparatively more land than the equivalent caloric output from plant crops would, which seems inevitable just by force of physics. Beyond that, I have no special information.
You said this study was flawed, I asked if you had a better one. I was honestly expecting "Sure! Here's a great one that shows something slightly different, as I follow this closely enough to have an opinion...", and then I would have said "Thanks! I can see how that's slightly different".
I thought I explained my objections to the methodology pretty clearly. I have no dog in the fight regarding the conclusion: the paper speaks for itself. another study using the same methodology would likely reach the same conclusion, necessarily relying on the same source material. that does not mean the methodology is correct.
edit: I said "correct" but what I should have said was "useful for determining a correct policy for agriculture".
the problem surmized:
"your idea doesnt make sense, and here is why." "I know my idea is false, but then again, if you don't have a better idea, that makes my idea come true. UNO REVERSE CARD!"
i think the problem is a fundamental misunderstanding how a logical debate goes down. its not about what you want inside yourself.
its about finding the best model for representing your actuall expiriences.
and that statistic thing has a very bad model which brings up a lot of questions.
I already said
I suppose you did, but I find "no policy, no what-if, lets businesses decide" to be a pretty poor answer.
that's not what I said
@commie @CanadaPlus dude, this ain't no hill you need to die on ...
Thanks? I didn't think there was any dying yet. I wasn't even arguing there, professionals are often happy to point you to their preferred sources.