this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2024
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Before phones, students were distracted by fidget toys, tamagochi, bubble gum, various collectibles, comic books, ordinary books, paper notes, drawing, pen twitching, etc.etc.
Students always find ways to get distracted. Take away everything and they'll still be rocking on the chair.
So if the purpose of banning distractions is to make students more attentive, well.. it's just not going to do that.
Then there is online bullying. Has bullying actually increased or are we just seeing it more, because it's now documented? Banning phones in school won't stop it from happening outside school hours anyway.
I'm not advocating for allowing phones in schools during lectures or anything, but it's pretty clear to me that an outright ban is an outdated solution that will only hide the issues instead of solving them.
The smartphone is a different beast. Hardware and software companies spent millions of dollars of R&D to create the most psychologically addicting and attention demanding device as possible.
May I gently ask if you have children in the phone age range?
I have never seen anything with such a hold over teenagers.
It's absolutely crack. My nephew and niece is 7 and 4, they don't watch a lot of tv and aren't allowed on the phone a lot, but when they are it's fucking crazy. They don't even have to do anything on it. When he was 5 and his friend was also 5, we had a Christmas family party. My phone was on the table and it blinked. No joke, they were like zombies, starring my phone down. He reached for it and i told him not to touch it. Their fingers kept moving on their own, and all they could to is stt the time, yet that was the most interesting thing in the universe to them. They were unable to not touch it.
When they are allowed on the phone for like 15 minutes all they do is to watch the biggest most meaningless garbage i can imagine. They would pick looking at a phone over pretty much anything. Before my sister had kids i would always think the whole ipad kids thing is blown out of proportion and i would teach them things with it, because after all, it is a useful tool. Not anymore, fuck that. I feel bad for ipad kids, i can only imagine the brain rot.
I have kids that age and a little older, and we have strict rules on screen time because of this. When I ask what they want to do, two will be uninterested in watching something on the TV or tablet, but if I let the other do it, they'll all watch whatever is on the screen. My kids will try to grab my phone from me randomly during the day, and if I'm doing anything on my phone or computer, they'll try to see what I'm doing. If I let them watch something on YouTube or something, they'll watch stupid, high-engagement videos (e.g. Minecraft "challenges" or whatever), and my oldest was practically addicted to a toy review channel (they weren't even interested in the toys) until I banned YouTube entirely (we let them choose how to use their allotted screen time).
There's no way I'm letting them have a phone until they can demonstrate the smallest bit of restraint. I'm considering leaving my old phone around for emergency calls, but I know the moment I let them access it, they'll get on the internet and watch random videos.
I think devices can be a fantastic learning tool, and I sometimes let them use my devices for educational reasons occasionally, but even then, they need strict limits on total time and per session time. We let them "earn" time by reading, but again, we have those strict limits so they don't binge.
When my kids can be trusted with a phone, I'm not going to let them bring it unless they have a legitimate reason to have it at school (e.g. they have an after school activity w/o a fixed end time).
You're really good at writing compelling fiction.
Maybe y'all are just boring AF to these poor kids? I would greatly prefer a phone over somebody condescending to me.
I have children, including a teen, and they have phones.
One thing I do notice is that they're quite a lot better at putting the phone away when they're with friends doing stuff or at family dinners than their grandparents who keeps checking notifications and answering calls regardless of when and where.
They grew up with phones and they have a much better understanding of when it's socially acceptable to use it.
They know not use the phone during class, so there's really no good reason to ban it entirely.
That's your kids which are in the minority.
Their friends are pretty good too. Whenever they hang out they do other stuff. They plan to meet for some purpose and that's what they do. Keeping up to date on social media is something they do on their own time when they're bored.
It's like they grow out of it, once they've seen enough crap.
I know one family like that. Kids prefer activities to phones. But the rest not so much. The kids get together and do things in spurts separated by phone time. Usually whatever they are doing, at least one of them is on the phone. So it is really kid dependent.
I think you're missing my point.
I doubt the sports jocks use their phone during sports ball practice?
Seems like a sports jock attention problem more than a phone availability problem.
Your anecdotes and your kid's anecdotes might not represent reality either. But somehow y'all are (violently) banning phones for everybody.
Exactly.
I'm surprised to see users on Lemmy being this dead set on banning stuff for kids just because "we tried nothing and it doesn't work*
Social media is bad, phones are bad, I get it, but banning is not the solution.
Kids will grow up in a world with both social media and phones. IMO school should prepare them and be a practice ground for it, so they don't make the same mistakes as we - the parents - did.
Like posted elsewhere, my kids are better at it than I am. Banning phones is projection all the way.
I'm perfectly fine with disallowing phones during class, but an outright ban is an extreme reaction completely missing the problematic issues and potentially making it worse.
True
Citations needed.
Some drugs are just stronger than the others.
Phones are literally not drugs.
They literally are (or are distribution channels thereof). Designed by some of the best psychologists.
Addicting maybe but they literally are not drugs. More akin to gambling addiction then any sort of drug dependency. There's a gigantic difference between the two. Sort of bothers me when people throw them in the same pile as they are so much different when it comes to how to deal with those types of addiction.
Fair enough. The "substance" itself is missing, so the drug itself is not being there.
While I don't disagree, social media is the problem and what are schools going to do about that, except for banning phones? You also can't compare getting distracted by a pen or piece of paper, to a phone with bright colours and notifications, specifically designed to be as addicting as possible
Social media is a problem for sure.
Also, thank you for asking what schools are supposed to do.
The problem is schools not managing to encouraging pupils towards learning.
I know I've said this before, but the teachers curse is that nothing is taught until the pupil understands it themselves, and is willing to absorb the material put in front of them. Encouraging pupils to want to learn ought to be top priority for any school. Banning phones is a lost cause, because they're already lost at that point. They're bored, so they rock on the chair or fiddle with a phone. I seriously don't think that social media addiction is the core issue here. It's an issue for sure, but it's not what is keeping kids from learning. Boredom is.
Regardless of technology, paying attention is entirely up to their own willingness to learn. Teachers should be feeding the desire to learn, not in a "fellow kids" kind of way, but by showing them why the curriculum is important to them.
I totally acknowledge that there's no reason to have a phone in class and that social media is bad, but it's relevant not issue in teaching.
Fair points, although I'm not sure that's easy to solve. Some teachers are more interesting than others, but schools, especially middle and high schools are too generic for a whole class to be able to listen. Not everybody is going to enjoy chemistry class, while others are just not going to be happy in PE or foreign languages (me). I think a major rework of the school system is required for this to be kind of solved, but it'll never go away completely.
I think putting all the responsibility on schools is not the right approach, they're probably already doing their best, but that just doesn't work on every kid
Outright bans are because government bodies are scared of nuance. You can also see this in "zero-tolerance" policies that do things like punish the victim because they were "involved" in a fight, or punish a kid who nibbles a chicken nugget into the shape of a gun.
To be fair to schools, nuance is hard. Suppose that the rule is "phones may not interrupt class." Now, what counts as an interruption may vary between classes, between teachers, and based on what's happening in class. A student may use it during a quiet period in the class when they've already completed their work, and that's acceptable. A different student will then use their phone ten minutes later, when they're supposed to be doing something. The second student will get in trouble, but then complain that the first student didn't get in trouble. The parent will hear, "Brayden was using his phone and he didn't get in trouble but the second I used mine, I got in trouble. The teacher has it out for me."
If you've talked to any teachers in the past few decades, a common theme is parents siding with their kids against all logic, reason, and evidence. They'll assume that teachers are petty goblins, just looking for an excuse to pick on their kid. And parents can be outright hostile and unreasonable. When my wife was a teacher, she received more than one actual death threat from parents because she enforced rules that did NOT have any nuance or discretion. Imagine if enforcing the rule was up to the teacher's discretion versus an outright ban.
tl;dr I agree that a ban is silly, but I totally get why schools are doing it.
I'm sorry, but there's a wildly huge difference between bubble gum/collectibles/comic books and internet connected cell phones.
I was terrible at paying attention in class, but I always made it through by hearing just enough to get by... until I was in my final year of college when some of the classes got internet connected desktops at every desk. In normal classes I'd be fine, but in the classes with a computer where I could IM with friends I failed miserably (literally went from straight A's to C's and a couple F's in college classes because of internet connected computers being in front of me all the time). And that was a desktop with only a couple friends I knew who also had IM on at the time. I can't imagine how poorly I would have done at school if every one of my friends had messaging on every minute of every day, not to mention mobile gaming and social media.
I think there is a difference.
Yeah, the tamagotchi are games, but they are a game in the singular sense.
All the things you mention as distractions except the food items are contained in one phone multiple times over. Heck, you could probably even find a bubblegum chewing app.
That’s the distraction potential contained in one phone.
And thats really all they care about.