this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2024
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Here in Europe many schools are doing this too. As a father of an (almost) teenger, I'm they are.
Got two teenagers. I’d outlaw smart phones for anyone under 18 if it was up to me. Bring the flame!
No, you're right.
We got our oldest a smart phone a few years ago. Based on that experience, our younger two can buy their own smartphones when they're adults because we've decided we're not going to repeat that mistake.
Sort of the same here. Our 17 and 14 year olds were the last in their classes to get one and I still felt it was too early.
And for those without kids, here’s my actual story about what smart phones do to children: I was recently visiting an enormous aquarium abroad; just tank after tank of impressive displays.
As we arrived we realised, ok wow, shark feeding is literally now, let’s go watch it. It had obviously drawn an enormous crowd of families but eventually we got ourselves into a position where we could see. And then my wife tapped my shoulder and pointed and I noticed what she had noticed: At prime viewing position, on these pedestal sort of things, we’re sitting a row of teenagers, all of them, to the very last boy and girl, hunched over and staring at their smartphones.
LITERAL SHARKS WERE BEING HAND FED RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM and they couldn’t give a shit because PHONES!!!
I strongly disagree, this should be a decision for parents to make, no need to get the law involved. However, schools can and should have a policy that phones need to be off (or at least silenced, no vibrate) during class, and they can check it if excused to go to the restroom or something. But I would never agree to a law banning access to phones for minors, that's a violation of parental discretion.
We ban gambling, cigarettes, alcohol, media for children, because of harms we understand that they inflict on children. Should these be parental discretions too?
Largely yes, but within reason, and only when under direct parental supervision. Drinking and smoking can be part of religious or cultural practices, so a small amount of that should be completely acceptable. But these should only be allowed within the home, with an exception for media, which should be allowed w/o supervisio with explicit permission (e.g. a written note or verbal confirmation at a theater or something).
Allowing these could constitute child abuse, but I don't think there should be a blanket ban.
Ok, good to understand your viewpoint. It’s clear you seek an entirely different way of managing vices for children. I can appreciate the world you’re describing, where responsible adults help and guide their children to maturity.
I live in the U.K., not sure where you live, but it is my utmost conviction that many parents here do not guide and shape their children and that should your approach to vice management be instituted, you’d see an heap of children slip into dependency before 10.
But you may live in a different part of the world, one where your approach could work. What do I know?
I live in the US, and we certainly have our own share of problems with parents sucking, but other people sucking shouldn't impact my ability to make choices for my own family. Rules like these merely restrict law-abiding citizens like myself, those who would let their kids have a phone, drink, smoke, etc won't follow the law anyway.
These types of problems are often pretty easy to detect at school or something, so we should probably instead focus on empowering social workers instead of creating laws that are unlikely to do much.
There are good and bad ways to use a phone. It's not comparable to things like cigarettes.
True, but there is good and bad ways to use media (educational content done well vs cheap Chinese children’s TV) and we do have age ratings there.
You’re right that cigarettes are universally bad (smokers would argue not, of course, and probably highlight social moments, pauses to reflect etc) but much of my list has good and bad sides. I’m perfectly open to removing cigarettes from the list, but it doesn’t change the validity of the other areas where we regulate minors’ usage.
I'd argue that gambling doesn't really have good sides and alcohol is ambivalent at best. We could compare it to other media like TV, that's perfectly ok. But when it comes to restrictions concerning other media, they are not as strict and act mostly like guidelines for parents.
But your kids are being addicted!!!! They're literally zombies!!! They need to be saved by the state!!! \s
Yeah, it's too bad there's absolutely no other way for anyone to deal with this problem aside from having the police potentially arrest me or my kids for having a phone. Just think of all of the victims of this heinous crime should the police not have the authority to parent my kids for me.