this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2024
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I always considered marriage the epitome of feeling connected: you share a life with a partner and maybe even have children. Society at least acts like it is.

I have a coworker in his 40s, conservative and Christian, married to a woman holding a job, he is also employed and has a good job, all things considered and they have a child.

I don't see this person much but each time he sees me he approaches to basically complain and rant, mostly about democrats and foreigners, getting very emotional to the point of crying.

At first I hated him for spewing so much shit, but now I think I'm starting to pity him: he has a job, is married to a working woman, they have a child, they are homeowners... and he still feels angry and needs to rant to feel good. It's like he's angry at everything.

Which takes me to think, maybe there are things men need emotionally that women cannot provide, but I couldn't write a list.

What are some of these connections men need out of a marriage?

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 3 months ago

So, there's a lot of things to unpack here.

First, the idea that your spouse is your primary sole emotional connection is a relatively weird new concept on the scale of things. There's been a huge period of history where your primary emotional connection was your male companions and your spouse was infantalized by comparison. If you were well-off you might be so lucky and have your group of emotional companions, your group of romantic companions, and the person who bears your legitimate children.

Second, there's really not much of a good underlying working model for actual modern conservatism. The frontiersman/"house on the prairie" sort of rugged independence was never actually a thing back then and a lot of big issues like medical bills were a lot simpler when the answer to having any sort of illness was that you either get over it after relatively inexpensive and simple treatments or you die. So the conservative movement must necessarily sell you a false bill of goods. US politics are such that there is no actual fully-left political party, so that by default makes you a democrat.

There's also a bunch of added uniquely christian baggage. So there are left-wing christians who also have their own set of weird baggage.

Third, mostly irrespective of politics, there's a lot of cultural programming for males that they can't actually worthwhile work though their emotions in a productive fashion. Movies, TV shows, books, literally everything in the media creates this idea of maleness and the writers are just trying to write a catchy story and seldom have time to think about what kind of male they are creating. This is, overall, a relatively recent concept.

Fourth, "things men need emotionally that women cannot provide" is actually pretty silly. Outside of practical advice about what to do with specific pieces of anatomy where maybe it would be nice to have some reference, the things people do is a pretty wide field. "Oh, someone to watch football with" ignores female football fans, et al. This ties in a lot with right wing men because they can't necessarily have an emotional connection with someone not-male because that's equivalent to messing around with someone's property. And it also ties in with the social programming that created a stereotype for how men are supposed to relate to each other that's just a writer trying to put a good story together without thinking of the social implications.

Radicalization doesn't work on people who are emotionally connected and comfortable. Part of why we are where we are is that there's a whole class of people whose happiness has been precluded by the structure of their lives and the best people who can take advantage of this are fraudsters selling a false bill of goods. And I don't even really feel sympathy for those people anymore because they are hurting people who I do very much care about and after a point it doesn't matter if they are just too dumb to see it.

But, I guess, to return to your initial point, the idea that if you find a person and get married to them that you have "solved" connection, that's the road to unhappiness. Partially because marriage generally requires a commitment and effort to stay together as things happen and people change... but also because relying on one single person without other social connectivity is not a stable equilibrium.