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Death toll tops 1,000 after Haj marked by extreme heat (www.channelnewsasia.com)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 8 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

their religion literally mandates that they make a pilgrimage there

No it doesn't. Pilgrimage is one of those obligations that most people are exempt from unless they can. Perhaps they thought they were more physically fit than they really are. Someone who is sick, poor, or unable for whatever reason, is exempt.

My heart sincerely goes out to the families, this is tragic.

People who die during pilgrimage are considered martyrs, so it is not the worst outcome. There has always been a risk associated with pilgrimage. Right now it is as easy and comfortable as it ever been.

I wish people commenting here knew a bit about Islam before doing so.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 5 months ago (2 children)

I would argue that Muslims are, by default, required by their religion to make the hajj. You make it sound as if it's opt in, but their religion mandates it with some exceptions.

Not the worst outcome for whom? People are dead. I'll bet there's at least one child, sibling, or parent who isn't terribly comforted by the idea that their loved one is a martyr.

While I wouldn't call myself an Islamic scholar, I would say I do know a bit about it.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

I would argue that Muslims are, by default, required by their religion to make the hajj.

No it does not. The verse is quite clear: {وَلِلَّهِ عَلَى النَّاسِ حِجُّ الْبَيْتِ مَنِ اسْتَطَاعَ إِلَيْهِ سَبِيلًا} {And for God is the duty of the people to perform the Hajj to the House, whoever is able to make a way to it} emphasis mine. If someone knows they can't: sick, poor, etc... the verse says basically don't go.

While I wouldn’t call myself an Islamic scholar, I would say I do know a bit about it.

Do you know that in certain cases Hajj is haram? Possibly risking your life is one reason why many have prohibited it.

Not the worst outcome for whom? People are dead. I’ll bet there’s at least one child, sibling, or parent who isn’t terribly comforted by the idea that their loved one is a martyr.

For the faithful it is not. I don't know what to say more than this. They could have not performed hajj but they chose to oblige themselves.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You realize that my entire comment basically boiled down to, "I wonder if this will make chime question their faith," so imho replying that I shouldn't feel bad for the faithful is a little bit missing the point.

If it's not clear, I'm not a Muslim, and not religious at all. Even if all of the families are comforted by their religion, I will still feel pain for them.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I wonder if this will make chime question their faith

Why would they question their faith? The Quran clearly states go to pilgrimage only if you can. Perhaps they felt compelled to go, but surely they knew they didn't have to.

People who are religious are generally not afraid to die. There are endless risks associated with pilgrimage beyond just a heat stroke.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 5 months ago

would argue that Muslims are, by default, required by their religion to make the hajj. You make it sound as if it's opt in, but their religion mandates it with some exceptions.

Nah dude, the vast majority of Muslims never go to mecca. It's not a mandate anyone enforces but yourself. I think only like 9% of Muslims ever actually get to make the trip.