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"Of course not - that might hurt my accelerationist dreams!" (lemmy.world)

submitted 5 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] -2 points 5 months ago (1 children)

this bit about 5 seats is arbitrary.

Fair. I had to put a cut-off somewhere.

Each of those countries has 1-2 dominant parties, with the rest being involved in name only.

In the UK, the Lib Dems have decided which of the 'big' parties sits in government and which in opposition. The Bloc Quebecois is one of the major parties in Quebec. In India, the two biggest parties get 50-60% of the total votes polled, and most governments are composed of multi-party coalitions. Also about a third of states have governments led by a third party.

And as another user already pointed out to you, these countries dont use pure FPTP voting.

And as I pointed out, they were wrong. The UK, Canada and India use pure FPTP, and Russia has three big parties even if you only consider the FPTP seats.

The spoiler effect requires voters to vote strategically, which means no third party viability.

Third parties cannot win only when everyone thinks they can't win. Labour went from a small third party to forming the government in about a generation. The BJP did the same in India. At the state level, there have been many cases of a third party coming from a single-digit percentage of the vote and winning the election.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

In the UK, the Lib Dems have decided which of the ‘big’ parties sits in government and which in opposition. The Bloc Quebecois is one of the major parties in Quebec. In India, the two biggest parties get 50-60% of the total votes polled, and most governments are composed of multi-party coalitions. Also about a third of states have governments led by a third party.

I am aware. But that doesn't really change what I've said. You're comparing smaller elections for seats with a big election like the U.S. president. Those elections still have 1-2 dominant parties, etc.

Third parties cannot win only when everyone thinks they can’t win.

You can't just wish away the spoiler effect.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You're comparing smaller elections for seats with a big election like the U.S. president.

You are right. There is a difference between parliamentary and presidential systems. Parliamentary systems reward parties that are locally strong. Presidential systems require a party to have a national base. So then, the problem is not with FPTP per se, but with Presidential forms of government.

You can't just wish away the spoiler effect.

I have already shown multiple examples of third parties under FPTP systems. I don't know what other evidence you expect.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 months ago

So then, the problem is not with FPTP per se, but with Presidential forms of government.

It's a combination problem. There is only one seat available, and the race is done with FPTP, meaning the spoiler effect is especially strong.

If we switched to approval or star, no such effect would take place. Of course there is other election reform needed to make third parties viable, but there is no such thing as a simple solution for this problem.

I have already shown multiple examples of third parties under FPTP systems.

And those parties wield very little power. There are still parties that dominate the elections. No one party should have anything even remotely close to 50% of the seats.