this post was submitted on 25 May 2024
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@prancing389 That man was more anarchocapialist than libertarian. Anarchocapialist don't want governments so borders are irrelevant and if you're overrun by tankies that turn your society totalitarian, you either run away or go underground. Libertarians believe in some government, just much more limited and more focused on property rights, core society services, and services that enforce the nonagression principle. Several of these require strong borders and legal immigration that buy into the laws and customs. I'm not libertarian (I believe in subsidiarity) but I do agree that government has gotten too big and is putting its nose in too many areas. I'd be satisfied if we go roll back governments to the 1980s when you could open a bank account with no ID and something like the lockdowns would be impossible (compare the SARS response to the COVID-19 response).
In a society with no or extremely limited government commies have zero sway. They would not even bother coming knowing they will have to pay market value for things in that place.
The whole point was to remove political discussion from forums related to Monero unless it directly affects our ability to create a circular economy. If you want to fracture a movement, there's no more sure way to succeed than to divide it's members by any unrelated issues. Let's stick to our core focus. Our respective thoughts on government can be expressed ELSEWHERE. If we observe this discipline they will fail to drive us apart.
Agreed, but there is a difference between dividing people and making distinctions. The fact that different people exist is not political, especially if they want the same thing (like Monero). I was simply pointing out that if you have any sort of government, even tribal or libertarian, you have to distinguish the people under the government and those who are not, and you have to have some mutual self protection of property rights (i.e. a border protection) and a way for the in-group to benefit from shared expenses for the out-group not to leach off of it (since the out-group could easily outnumber the in-group and collapse the government). If you don't believe in governments, the border issue and the shared service issue is makes no sense. As mentioned above, I'm not a libertarian but can support many libertarian ideals because it would bring us closer to a time that government was not so overreaching. Anarchocapialists are not libertarian, but they can also support such policies because it brings society closer to their ideals. There's nothing antagonistic in what I've written and in fact re-enforces unity despite differences.
Dude. This was filmed at the libertarian convention. If you expect to see no politics when watching that you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I see your point about keeping Monero spaces focused, but again, this was filmed at a political gathering.
Borders are an issue of contention for libertarians. Some see the free movement of people as individualistic and that the lines are made by states which shouldn't have that power, others see it as a property rights issue where anyone can tell someone else to stay out of their home. It's one of two genuine points of contention with regard to libertarian ideology, and there's no clear answer. If you want to run in libertarian circles, get used to having this conversation with people instead of getting mad and telling people to shut up.