this post was submitted on 07 May 2024
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ca/post/20749204

Another positive step in the right direction for an organization rife with brokenness. There's a lot I don't like about the organization, but this is something a love--a scouting organization open to young women and the lgbtq community. The next step is being inclusive of nonreligious agnostic and atheist youth and leaders. As well as ending the cultural appropriation of Native American peoples.

May this organization continue to build up youth, never allow further violence against youth, and make amends for all the wrongs. There's a lot of good that comes out of organizations like this and I won't discount it even though it's riddled with a dark history.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I am a Satanist; although it's religious, it's also explicitly atheistic. Per your blog, "By signing the membership application, each leader has already acknowledged the Declaration of Religious Principle which affirms a belief in God [...]". While I could quite truthfully say that I acknowledge myself as my own god, I do not believe in God, and I can not honestly affirm that I believe a belief in any external god to be necessary in order to be a good person and citizen.

"A scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent"; I can't be trustworthy without also being wholly honest, including that I don't believe in an external god. "On my honor, I will do my best, to god and my country, to uphold the Scout law, and to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight"; how could I say this without being deceptive? I know that the 'god' they're referring to is a deity outside of myself, and it wouldn't be moral for me to swear to this without also believing in some form of external deity.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

I know that the 'god' they're referring to is a deity outside of myself

That is false. They are very explicit in their policies that they do not define "god". Their policies leave the definition of "god" to be determined by the scout, not the scouting organization.

The "duty to god" requirement charges you with defining your own god. You are not beholden to anyone else's definition.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I hear you and applaud the conviction.

I feel very okay acknowledging myself as my own god and yourself as yours. It's certainly a reinterpretation, but I'm okay with that for the sake of offering this to my own children. Children hardly know what it means to believe in a god as it is, so I figure why complicate it. I love to teach them what it means to be reverent in a way that is different from the status quo.

In the end though, my preference is that atheists are permitted as they are. Period. Full stop.

We can teach reverence without an external deity.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Also while it may be true in some parts of the country, I cannot imagine the other volunteers will ban you for something as semantic as the "wrong" religion or a different definition of reverence.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

When your religion is defined by denial and opposition to all other religions, then it probably isn't welcome where religious tolerance is a requirement.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Sorry, are you talking about Christianity?

Or were you talking about Islam?

Oh, wait, no, probably Hinduism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

Nah, surely Mormonism.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

No I mean the literal purpose of Satanism is to oppose religion and particularly Christianity. That's why it's named after the embodiment of evil according to Christianity. It's deliberately antagonistic. That's not at all the same as believing that yours is the only true religion.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Goodness. You don't really know a lot about Satanism, do you?

I don't oppose religion, as long as religion stays in it's own lane. As long as religion is personal, and not forced on other people, I simply don't care; it's literally not my problem, nor is it my job to 'convert' other people. If you're happy being e.g. Catholic, that's fine.

...Until you try to force me to obey the dictates of your religion because you can't tell the difference between civil society and your religion.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Look, it doesn't matter what you claim to be about if the name you choose is screaming something different. It's like if you opened a restaurant called Hitler was right, and then acted surprised when people called you a Nazi. You can tell everyone that Jews are welcome, but nobody will believe you.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

::sigh::

So you tell me, since you know my religion so well; what do I believe?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

The only thing I know about your religion is that it is antagonistic toward Christianity, and probably all other religions. And that's based entirely on the name.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Uh huh.

Would you judge a man based on the color of his skin rather than on his character?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Uhh no? But if he chose a name for himself, I would assume that the name meant something about him.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

So, to recap, you know nothing about my religion other than the name, and make assumptions about what I believe due to your prejudices, but you don't believe that you have prejudices based on skin color. Is that correct?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 7 months ago

Yes, if your religion is named after the literal anti-Christ, I assume that you are anti Christian. And I don't see what that has to do with skin color.