Just putting this up to contrast with this post and because Eli Valley is a great political cartoonist.
this post was submitted on 02 May 2024
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No one had to tell me it, it is self-evident. He's the representative you choose and he's going to absolutely 100% take your vote for him as vindication that supporting genocide is politically viable, which means Dems will keep fielding zionists and taking AIPAC money.
That's the consequences of your choice. You need to accept that, not try to pretend you still get to have sone kind of moral high ground.
Well, I don’t support either one of them but it’s very clear that Trump is the worse of the two options in the two party system. I did not choose him. I really think it’s moronic for randos on the internet to try to tell me what I support. It’s not a moral issue for me, it’s a logical one.
Voting for Biden is supporting him, yes. Sitting here arguing that people should vote for him is supporting him. You are a Biden supporter.
Tell me, logically, what would convince democrats to stop supporting genocide?
Again, voting for Biden is not supporting him. I’ll acknowledge that he is one of two shitty options, but my brain works well enough to recognize that in a two party system, we’re not going to have more than two options. That’s just math.
My memory works well enough to remember the Trump regime and its lasting impacts on our country. Not voting for Biden is an endorsement for further rollbacks to bodily autonomy, a greater division in wealth, the privatization of public services, religious indoctrination in schools, AND the continued genocide of Palestinians.
There are three options, not two.
It honestly still sounds like cope to me. You're voting for Biden and the Biden agenda, but somehow think that declaring that you are not supporting him absolves you of enabling him. Take ownership of your actions.
You're not being honest with yourself because you like to believe you're a moral person, but it turns out you are willing to cache in your morals out of fear. Which I guess tracks, cowardice and will lead to cowardly actions.
Tell yourself what you need to in order to sleep at night, but your unwillingness to truly resist is why the country continues on the track it has been on, why Democrats keep following the GOP to the right.
The third option being doing nothing at all? Is that the third option or are you going to inform me of a new way to do electoral math?
I am voting for Biden as a vote against Trump. I do not support Biden; I abhor Trump. I am not really sure why this is difficult to process for you.
You keep mentioning morals after I already told you that my decision is not one based in morals; it's based in logic. Keep schilling for the right and you too will no longer need to worry about voting at all.
And I'm voting Uncommitted against Trump as well as zionism and genocide being tolerated in the Democratic party.
You might be ok with Dems being complicit in genocide, I am not and my action reflects that. It doesn't take a whole lot to get my vote back, just don't fund genocide. Easy, right?
And I repeat the question you side-stepped; logically, how would one discourage Democrats from supporting genocide? Remember now, I'm not talking about Republicans, I know that they're difficult to distinguish these days but I'm asking about Democrats. How, logically, does one stop Democrats from funding genocide and accepting AIPAC money?
In my state, we're not even having a primary. Again, tell me more about how to do the electoral math.
Show up to the meetings in your county. Get the phone numbers of the local party leaders that you can actually speak with. Engage with them. Tell them what they need to support. I'm tired of being the youngest person in the room as a 40 year old, it doesn't bode well. All politics is local.
Contact my representatives. Ok. And when they say "Nah, we like supporting genocide and taking AIPAC money, we're going to keep doing that" what then?
Wow... ok...
1.) I did not say to contact your representatives. I said to get in touch with your local party leaders. That means the people running the either weekly or monthly meetings that happen in your county. Depending on where you live, that might be your neighbor, or it might be someone down the street, but either way; it's going to be someone that you have a possible chance of encountering at a store in your area.
2.) Based on how you responded, I can infer that you haven't tried contacting your representatives either. So tell me again... what have you tried other than just doing nothing?
Ok, so the party leaders and representatives and your local city council or whoever else say "Nah, we like supporting genocide and taking AIPAC money, we’re going to keep doing that” what then?
What's the next step, logically, if those in power aren't listening or interested in changing their behavior?
You bring your friends out, and get yourselves voted in to replace them.
I see. Taking office myself.
So if we extend this logic to the presidency I should...-checks notes-....just become the President of the United States.
Perhaps... but you also have to realize the timeline involved in such an endeavor. In the meantime, you have a two party system. Vote for the better option.
You're just circling back around to alluding to Republicans again. I didn't ask about how to stop Republicans. I asked how to stop right-wing extremist Democrats from directing the party.
You admit on one hand that getting people to vote against a genocide-supporting candidate is ultimately the way you influence the Democratic party's support of genocide when those in power won't listen, but then still end up at the conclusion that we should vote for the genocide-supporting candidate.
I fail to see how this will effect the Democrats future behavior. Why wouldn't they just continue their strategy of propping up extremist right-wing opponents to make their genocide-supporting candidates the lesser of two evils?
What do you think, logically, I should infer then about your claim that you're a logical decision maker?
Are you daft or just trolling?
What does "alluding to Republicans" even mean? I need an explanation of that statement because I can't process that.
I told you exactly what to do. If you missed it, scroll back up. It doesn't mean change is going to happen next week. It takes time and you've literally done nothing other than asking a bunch of questions and schilling for the right. Ask all the questions you want, and I'll answer them but you need to get off your ass and go be politically active within your community.
If you'd like me to figure out how to do this for you, let me know your county and state, and I'll be happy to get you pointed in the right direction.
While I’m so disaffected that I’ve had to have my fire rekindled to vote for the “least damaging option” yet again, and while I’ll be dragging my feet to the booth in November, I feel from key words in this conversation that their mastery of English is surprising to the point of suspect when I consider the errors they’re committing.
I’d advise saving your energy for a less disingenuous conversation.
Have a great day.
I'm pointing out that in the end you still just invoke them as boogiemen. You still fall back to "Well, the reason you vote for the problematic Dems this time is...(because Republicans)." Which is what you'll say next election and the next and the next.
It is the exact feedback loop I'm asking how to not participate in reinforcing since that very strategy has objectively failed for decades and only moved the nation further to the right. Yet it repeats because every election cycle morons come out and vote based on fear.
I'm explicitly not asking about kicking the can down the road again.
You suggest asking nicely and then, if that doesn't work, voting in local elections and hoping some day in some indeterminate future, that trickles up and effects the party leadership somehow.
I'm looking to destroy or disable the entrenched power structure in the DNC, not continue to indefinitely play a rigged game they themselves run. I'm not looking to help them continue playing grab-ass with the other flavor of fascists, do you understand?
I am 100% uninterested in waiting for the general public to wake up on their own, they can wake up from the slap across the face that is Donald Trump if thats what it takes to get them to actually move their dumbasses into gear. Because if that doesn't do it then the general public will simply acclimate to the slow boil of fascism that we are currently experiencing, and that's when things are truly done for good.
If someone is outnumbered by ineffectual morons with lots of money and entrenched political support and voting with the morons changes nothing, but voting against them disrupts their pattern of stupidity because they need your vote to move forward, then doing the latter is a legitimate choice to make. That is being politically active.
It's the difference between getting on the idiot wagon or laying down in front of it.
Right, and how long do we continue empowering the lesser of two evils? How many generations before that cycle is spontaneously disrupted by "talking to your local party leadership"?
Fear-based "Later" politics are idiotic and cowardly. I'm opting out of that.