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this post was submitted on 08 May 2024
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"Guys please, can you just ignore the dead children for one minute? They're already dead, it's not like they care anyway.
We're trying to make money here and your empathy for your fellow human beings is just mucking it all up. Please, please try to follow the apolitical rules we laid out and for the duration of the show and just stfu and give us money ok ? That's all we want. Bring the money and leave your messy politics at home. Your complaining makes other people not want to give us more money.
Remember why we're doing this. For culture and money. But mostly money. Thanks!"
Typical no win situation. Can't pick a side without being criticised, can't not pick a side for the same reason.
Only thing that both the Israeli government and Hamas can agree on is that the Palestinian people is expendable.
You can't claim to be non political and kick Russia out for invading Ukraine but let Israel stay in while committing genocide.
That in itself is a political statement.
Russia wasn't kicked out for invading Ukraine, just to be clear. Russia was kicked out because they no longer have a free press, which is a requirement for participation.
You can call it a pretense if you want, but that's the official reason, not the war.
Does Israel have a free press?
Place 101 on the press freedom index. Just below Madagascar. "Problematic" is the grade, so yes, but not without issues?
They can pick the side not doing a genocide.
Hamas plans a genocide of Jews on one hand -without limited success so far, but not for a lack of trying- and actively helps with worsening the situation in Gaza on the other because they can use deaths there for their propaganda. Israel isn't shy about killing as many Palestinians as possible either, because not reacting to Hamas terror isn't an option, but any reaction will produce a negative reaction and tons of propaganda anyway. So why not go all in?
So which side are you talking about? The one commiting genocide or the genocidal one? No, Palestinian civilians are sadly not a valid side you can chose as they are de facto governed by Hamas in Gaza... unless you have a plan to separate one from the other somehow. Please then go on and tell the plan to world leaders unsuccessfully looking for such a solution for many, many years now.
Or in short: Pretending there are easy sides, with one being right and one wrong, is not a solution but indeed part of the problem.
You seem to be speaking as if genocide is the goal of every war. It's really not, and in fact it's against international law which most countries stick to.
Genocide is quite rare through history because generally once you have complete dominion over a people you stop and start to rebuild. In the Iraq war (which was quite an extreme war with quite a lot of rule breaking) they allowed the people to eat, they allowed aid trucks free access, there were even British hospitals that treated Iraqis. Most importantly they took measures to reduce civilian casualties, like avoiding conflict in populated areas.
This 'war' is not following any of those rules. The people are not allowed to leave, aid providers are being directly targeted, any supply of medical equipment is prevented from access.
Anyone at this point sitting on the fence going "Well both sides are in the wrong" is either misinformed or evil.
You are of course right, both sides have done terrible things to each other. For over 100 years. Many Zionist immigrants and later Israelis have been victims of Palestinian violence. And throughout all that time, there have always been at least 10 times more Palestinians who have fallen victim to Zionist violence.
But yes, when two groups lay claim to the same piece of land, then hatred and violence ensue, including blind violence against civilians, because people can be really shitty, we know that.
But there is also the question of who is in the right in this conflict, whose claim to the land is more valid. In my sense of justice, in this conflict the Palestinians are the natives who should have owned the land from the start.
And the Zionists immigrated to Palestine with the declared aim of establishing their own Jewish state there. And like real Europeans of the time, they gave practically no thought to what the people living there thought about it.
I think we have to keep in mind that, regardless of the violence, the Palestinians have been subjected to terrible injustice for over 100 years by the Zionists, by Israel and by their European allies around the world.
I disagree.
So, whose arbitrarily picked amount of years to look back in time and say "see, our people were there first" are we following?
Massacring and forcibly evicting an existing population to create an ethnostate, which then subjugates the previous inhabitants under an apartheid regime, is generally seen as a "not very nice" thing to do. To suggest that territorial disputes can only be resolved through war is unimaginative, ignorant, and flatly incorrect.
Your question is unimportant because ethnostates and the forcible acquisition of territory are always fundamentally unjust.
A civilian population is being brutalized right now. The killing must stop for there to be any reconciliation.
Spoken like a true zionist bombing civilians because everyone on Gaza is Hamas. Specially children, journalists and aid workers.
Thank you for perfectly demonstrating my point. You are an idiot thinking this is a team sport, "your" side is right and everybody not sharing your exact opinion is wrong and the enemy.
And because everyone is the same on that "other side" I somehow become a zionist bombing civilians in your alternative world view, although I could impossibly qualify for that definition by any degree.
And also because everything on your side needs to be righteous you twist reality to fit your view. I explicitly asked how to effectively separate Palestinian civilians in Gaza from their de facto Hamas governmemnt. Yet somehow in your brain that question translated to the exact opposite of what I actually said: That somehow every civilan in Gaza is part of Hamas.
Seriously... how fucked up is your delusion that things you read instantly transform to mean something completely different, just so they fit the imaginary point you are trying to make?
ok
keep defending the genocide, warrior
Which one is that? Because Hamas sure tried. They're just too weak.
I don't see the hamas entry for Eurovision
Can't live your life sitting on the fence being friends with everyone. You gotta embrace your values and accept the consequences that some people will disdain you for it. If you can live with both the disdain and your consciousness, then you've picked the right place, i believe.
Fences are for birds.
Hamas values Palestinians way more than israel, at least they signed a ceasefire deal to try and stop raffah from being bombed, while Israel ignored it and started bombing any way.
Both sides all you want, but one side has been pushing for a ceasefire for months, returning the hostages for a permanent stop to the slaughter, and one side has been ignoring those calls to continue there genocide.
Hamas attacked Israel, counting on the response being disproportionate and bloody. They wanted dead Palestinians and the Israeli government complied.
Hamas aren't the good guys here. Neither is the Israeli government, just to be clear.
Yeah bro, they really just wanted to murder-suicide their mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, sons, and daughters Jonestown style. Trust me bro, they got what they deserved, bro.
It is disgusting to suggest they wished for the massacre of their people.
Do you think that Hamas are so inept that they didn't know what was going to happen after Oct 7? No, they knew, and counted on it to get support and to wreck any goodwill Israel had with their neighbours and the world.
Don't take me writing this as support for Israel. I hate their right wing fascist government as much as I hate the terrorists in Hamas.
There are no good guys in this, and both are fine with the killing of innocent civilians.
I'd say the scale of civilian death achieved through the deliberate targeting of civilians and civilian infrastructure is so extreme, it could not have been foreseen. It is a vastly disproportionate response.
This is just wrong. The western powers have unwaveringly supported Israel from the beginning. Only just recently has the US decided to perhaps reduce the weapon shipments to Israel, after vast destruction and loss of life has already occurred.
Agreed that it's disproportionate. Somewhat conflicted on the "deliberate targeting" as I think it's more of a "don't care as long as we also hit something that might be Hamas". Still certain that Hamas knew what would happen and already had a plan to use it for propaganda purposes.
Israel already have all the weapons they need to flatten Gaza completely. Hamas tactics are kind of working though. Although most western governments support Israel, this is causing internal issues (protests etc) in those countries, which weakens those governments, which will translate to less support for Israel. I suspect it won't do much in the short term, except perhaps strengthen the resolve of the Israeli government, which will only translate into more suffering for the Palestinian people.
The only people who can stop this suffering is the Israeli and Palestinian people, which they were trying to do before all this kicked off, and likely one of the reasons why one of the most pro-Palestine kibbutzes (Be'eri?) was hit so hard. Both Hamas and the Israeli government gain from this conflict, sickening as it is.
Intentionally striking hospitals, aid workers, journalists, and families in their homes, is the deliberate targeting of civilians.
When a faction commits war crimes, the propaganda writes itself.
Yet the US continues to send military equipment and munitions.
Not entirely. Israel relies heavily on foreign (US) capital. Threat of divestment and/or sanctions would likely be quite effective.
Found the nazi