this post was submitted on 28 Apr 2024
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as an outsider clicking through all those links..... wow. Wtf is the holy see? Wtf is apostolic episcopal jurisdiction? Who let these people cook?
these people said "what if we had a church that was also a country with a monarchy" and then cooked for like 800 years
edit: although I think the actual borders only got defined in like the 20th century?
The pope was king of a large chunk of central Italy for 1000 years until the unification of Italy took away almost all of that territory. The Popes insisted he should have all of Rome and refused to acknowledge the situation from 1870 to 1929, only finally coming to an agreement (with the fucking fascists, hmm).
I'm pretty sure that the position of the papacy after the fall of Rome was that they should have temporal power not only over the city of Rome but of all the territories of the Papal States that had been annexed by the Kingdom of Italy.
Also note that the popes were terrible secular leaders. The papal states were shitty places to live, even considered by the standards of 19th century Italy, and the popes lived in constant fear of their own subjects. In fact the only thing keeping Rome from finally falling was a garrison of French troops, that had to be withdrawn during the Franco-Prussian war. When the citizens of Rome were given the option to join the Kingdom, they won in a plebiscite. The people who wanted a temporal papacy were the elites and foreign ultramontanes.
Very true. Of course they voted to join in the plebiscite, they had recently overthrown the Pope in 1849 to make a short-lived republic. Unfortunately France under Louis Napoleon (who had personally participated in an 1831 rebellion against the Pope) crushed that Republic to appease those ultramontanes.
The history of the reaction in the 19th century is fascinating. I can recommend this book:
Metternich was so scared of radical students he basically ensured that the universities in Austria-Hungary were hamstrung by political meddling and censorship. This was a great foundation for the war with Prussia later on! /s
God damn history is cool. I have nothing interesting to say but thanks for this. I might actually go pick up that book, do you think it's suitable for someone who has basically read zero real history books?
I'd say it's a bit on the advanced side but if you can find it "off the back of a truck" then it's worth giving it a try.
If I remember correctly, Josef Ressel, one of the inventors of the propeller (there was severa, but he was in Austrial), was arrested as an anarchist after a steam engine powering a propeller exploded.
I am not in favour of exploding engines, but it always struck me as a bit on the paranoid side. Not that better ships for the Austrian navy would have helped against Prussia.
But then again, another propeller inventor, John Ericsson, came up with both the Monitor, a torpedo boat, and a mobile artillery that he tried to sell to Napoleon III, so you never know what propeller inventors can come up with if you don't arrest them as anarchists.
Could be worse, they could be English.
Larpers took any game they could get in the Roman Empire.