this post was submitted on 18 Apr 2024
56 points (82.6% liked)
Asklemmy
43870 readers
1500 users here now
A loosely moderated place to ask open-ended questions
Search asklemmy π
If your post meets the following criteria, it's welcome here!
- Open-ended question
- Not offensive: at this point, we do not have the bandwidth to moderate overtly political discussions. Assume best intent and be excellent to each other.
- Not regarding using or support for Lemmy: context, see the list of support communities and tools for finding communities below
- Not ad nauseam inducing: please make sure it is a question that would be new to most members
- An actual topic of discussion
Looking for support?
Looking for a community?
- Lemmyverse: community search
- sub.rehab: maps old subreddits to fediverse options, marks official as such
- [email protected]: a community for finding communities
~Icon~ ~by~ ~@Double_[email protected]~
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
None of that really matters when Russia is the one that is invading a foreign country and killing its citizens. Funny how all of you keep ignoring that or you just recite the Russian government propaganda.
Russia doesn't share your assumption that it is a foreign country. That assumption is rather limited to English propaganda, and Russia hasn't invested much resources in countering institutional propaganda in the English world - they don't need to fight a pointless war at that front.
I don't care what Russia thinks. Pretty much the entire world agrees that Ukraine is a foreign country and if it weren't I wonder why it let Ukraine have its own government and so on.
It matters a whole lot actually because this a proxy war between NATO and Russia. NATO is just as responsible for what's happening, and in fact we now know that it was the west that intervened to stop negotiations in Istanbul that could've stopped the war back in 2022. Bleating about Russian propaganda isn't going to change the facts of the situation.
What I recite is what mainstream western media openly says now, and if you claim that's Russian propaganda then you're exposing yourself as a troll.
Russia invaded Ukraine. NATO didn't.
30% population of pre-SMO Ukraine was Russian. And a dicriminated minority. Who invaded whom is a matter of how well versed you are with one side of propaganda and how ignorant of the other.
Please provide evidence to the contrary then.
It's extremely easy to find tons of images of russian troops invading Ukraine.
I have yet to find any images of Ukraine invading Russia.
Russian side of propaganda is not too difficult to find, even in the English world. Why don't you do a google search by yourself and list 10 results of what you found ?
Why would I go out of my way to prove your point? Why would I ever look for Russian propaganda?
Your argument is yours to prove not mine.
You haven't substantiated your own assertion about NATO not invading Russia. It is your point at stake. I simply pointed you to an undeniable fact that torpedos your assertion, and pointed you to relevant literature, which you are refusing to look into.
Your point stands logically punctured. Feel free to flee.
Lol. You can't just say without sources that NATO invaded Russia and then get mad when I deny it. That's like the people that claim that the earth is flat say that everyone else has to prove otherwise.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you have none.
Flat eathers actually give what they think is evidenxe fir their claims.
Looks like you haven't actually read much there either.
Lol, says the dude that gives no evidence.
Says the guy who needs no evidence for his beliefs.
Wow comeback π²
This is an infantile understanding of the situation. NATO expansion was the cause of the invasion as even Stoltenberg has now admitted publicly.
Why did the countries choose to join NATO? Maybe it was because Russia is a threat. A fact that was later proved by the invasion of Ukraine which actually made more countries join NATO.
If we are making hypothesis, USA bullying smaller countries into joining its own gang is much more probable. After all, it is not disputed that USA has been bullying everyone into forcing sanctions against Russia and only big countries like India and Germany have been able take a stand against American bullying.
My country joined because of Russia and their invasion of Ukraine not because of the USA.
Whatever makes you feel better. I am done here. I'll leave some reading material for you though.
If you haven't read actual Russian propaganda so far, I'd highly recommend reading the entire Big Serge's Substack for a rather informed take from perspective of a Russian in USA.
Enjoy these long reads with good tea.
I suggest you grow up.
Ok. Mama.
Because US has a massive propaganda machine and literally overthrows governments that aren't compliant. Entire books have been written on this subject, and yet here you are spewing ignorant drivel smugly.
Russia invaded Ukraine. The USA didn't. They have also done terrible things but we are discussing the invasion of Ukraine now.
Just because the USA has overthrown governments doesn't give Russia any right to invade Ukraine many years later.
Ditto. A country which is so afraid of freedoms and rights can't be trusted. Any reasonable country allows journalists to live.
USA literally published a paper on how they want to goad Russia into a war in Ukraine with the goal of extending Russia https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3063.html
USA ran a coup in Ukraine that overthrew a democratically elected government to put a far right regime in place that then committed atrocities against people of Donbas since 2014. I lovew how you ignore all that since it doesn't fit your infantile narrative.
I never said I trust the US regime or their media.
Russia intervened in 2014 by for example occupying Crimea.
Oh jeez you're right, I wonder what that was in response to.