this post was submitted on 09 Apr 2024
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chapotraphouse

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Shouldn't have said anything, now I'm getting paragraphs upon paragraphs about Putler and how the West has a moral obligation to prolong the war in Ukraine for as long as possible sad-boi

Also while apparently it can't be denied that the far right has grown somewhat stronger in Ukraine, the Ukrainian military had to rely on militias such as Azov so they wouldn't lose, we should not worry because they haven't seen that much electoral success

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (18 children)

I mean, tbh, I'm a little more sympathetic on this than most Hexbears. Like, no, I don't think Putin is Satan incarnate, and yes, this whole mess is America's fault for trying to pull them into NATO. But broadly speaking all the stuff about Ukraine being Nazi-riddled as a casus beli falls flat when Putin has been happy to use far-right-wing groups like Russki Orbaz for his own benefit, and I don't think Russia is really a credible threat to western hegemony like China is, so I don't see how supporting Russia would be meaningfully revolutionarily defeatist. Sure, people like your friend are psychos who soaked up too much propaganda.

But the war is here now, and I think the only thing keeping your average Ukrainian from living in a war zone is western arms shipments, and tbh that's the only argument that I find really resonates with me.

EDIT: Lot of people big mad about this one lmao

[–] [email protected] 21 points 7 months ago (4 children)

Yeah, the Casus Belli is flimsy af. Just because it is true, or largely true, is not sufficient to mean that this was the real reason for Putin's move.

I think that the breakaway states in the Donbass need(ed) to be defended and that the Crimea was under threat as the next likely target but this was a geopolitical manoeuvre imo.

Idk it's just hard to swallow Russia's military offensive as being anti-fascist when you have Putin repatriating the remains of Denikin and Ivan Ilyin to inter them with state honours.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If defending Crimea was all that was happening, then yeah, I'd agree with you. But Putin's stated goal is "denazification," which I don't really see any way to interpret except as overthrowing the government and installing one he likes better.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Putin wanted Ukraine to denazify since before the invasion and has stated as much. If you look at the actual Minsk Accords, they aren't demanding the ousting of the Ukrainian government. What Putin does care about are the literal Nazi paramilitary-turned-military who were spearheading the attacks on Donbas for eight years. The banderites are a real problem in Ukraine for many reasons and represent a political problem to Russia, it makes perfect sense for denazification of Ukraine to be a sincere demand, though obviously Russia doesn't give a shit about denazifying itself beyond occassional checks on the actual ethnonationalist political movements (like Navalny, Rest In ~~Power~~ Piss)

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