this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2024
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I will daily drive Wayland when it becomes Xorg function equivalent e.g. functional screen capture and overlays like every other OS (so never)
nah man, gotta be more specific. When those stuff work on every application.
A screen reader protocol for blind people that requires the app to be recompiled and opt-in to being accessible to accessibility tools, is not a replacement for one that worked for every application. Old apps will become impossible to use for some people with accessibility issues. Though wayland fanboys would tell you to shut up and be happy that a protocol exists, while failing to acknowledge that the protocol is literally fucking useless by design.
Yeah. Wayland is a nightmare of accessibility and as someone privileged to be able-bodied it can be tragically easy to forget.
Hopefully this Wayland fad goes away and we have a better protocol designed from scratch soon.
Why not just make a new protocol for what you need, rather than throwing out everything?
Why even make Wayland in the first place? Why make a protocol that is worse in every way than it's predecessor?
It's better in just about every way, objectively, I don't really know what you're talking about here.
You have one issue, accessibility, what other flaws do you see with the wayland protocol?
Why do you think it is that none of the people who worked on the X protocol would agree with you that wayland is worse in any way?
What specifically do you think is worse?
Why do you think literally every single desktop project is switching to wayland with no plans of implementing a different protocol, ever?
I feel like your version of reality is completely imaginary.
here's some things that will never be fixable in x.org
There's more.
I didn't even point out accessibility? That was a different user. You can't even read bro talk about imagining and then spitting garbled nonsense. Go back and read everything and then I might reply seriously.
I've not seen Wayland ever outside of this subreddit 🤣
I'm sure distro of the month somewhere prolly implemented it but us Debian chads stay winning.
I swear this is a psyop to kill of desktop Linux. Come back when screenshotting works correctly 👌
Debian has implemented it. Screenshotting has worked perfectly for years, maybe half a decade at this point.
edit: I just checked, screenshotting has been working since 2015 https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/1
Debian has been using wayland by default on gnome since 2019.
This is an impressive level of confidence for someone who has no idea what they're talking about.
Also, seeing as you're the guy who doesn't even have accessibility problems, that means you have... no problems.
Remind me again, what is so bad about wayland?
Why did it ever not work?
Oh it's because the protocol forbids apps accessing the output of other apps without special support for it, so unless apps manually include support for Wayland, it will not work.
With many apps that don't even do anything related to screenshotting or overlays - like Guake - it still does not work.
So most of my usual workflow is just broken by Wayland, productivity utterly shattered by some middleware crap and for what? Why?
Why? Why must the graphical protocol of all things break random software incl. accessibility, overlays etc.? No other OS has ever had this issue. No other OS finds it a security concern to allow apps to see other apps.
The only reason Wayland does is because it's just terribly designed from its very conception despite the constant warnings from other Devs and users.
Oh and then there's the Nvidia driver support...
Look at what they did with PulseAudio - now that's the right way to do it, users don't even know the difference except suddenly everything just works a bit better.
Ye I know that, this isn't the own you think it is as the GNOME Devs lost their mind long ago in many other ways as well.
It's no more special than what they had to do to support X...
Actually guake already works perfectly.
Security, proper rendering, mixed refresh rate displays, color management, HDR, no more insane hacks, I could go on. Also, you can't actually name a way in which your productivity is actually affected.
Other OS's DO have this issue, you have no idea the things macos has enforced, and we have backwards compatibility using xwayland, being forced to update to a new standard IS normal for operating systems, linux just delayed it for as long as possible. The problems with X11 are MUCH more vast than the problems other operating systems have.
Name one actual problem with the design.
That's 100% nvidia's fault and almost completely resolved
That wouldn't have worked with X11 at all, because x11 is so fundamentally broken that making a successor to X is completely actually impossible, there's a reason all the X11 devs which you believe are so brilliant for making x11 decided to switch to developing wayland, and decided that what you want is actually completely impossible while making an actually well designed desktop. Please actually look into the history of this. The people who actually know how X11 works, refuse to work on it, and for very good reason. If what you were saying was true, there would be an X12 project in the works... but there is not, because it is fundamentally awful.
It's also the default on KDE now, also, I don't understand why you seem to believe they should've rushed this out, what they did was correct, x11 wasn't going anywhere, you can still use X11, the point of wayland was to redesign things from the ground up to be as perfect as possible, and they're (slowly) achieving exactly that.
Use x11 if any of your usecases aren't met by wayland, it's not like they deleted it. But wayland is the future. They were right to make it partially non-backwards compatible, they needed to restart from scratch.
You can't really spam massive essays while ignoring most of what was said or pretending it's not true. When referring to GNOME Devs losing their mind I was talking about the design decisions of nu-Gnome, and you just went off talking about something being rushed?
Yeah great example to follow /s
Honestly I'm happy to give Wayland a chance when it starts working with software like Guake, but as it stands, it does not, based on currently stable versions of both from the Debian repos. Until then, it's just a useless protocol made with extremely anal design of requiring apps to be heavily modified to support it for uhmmm no reason as the issues with xorg are minimal really.
Guake works perfectly if the global shortcuts protocol has been implemented, and even if it isn't it only takes a minute to setup
is that your only thing?
I can show you how to set it up if you'd like, it's incredibly easy